Robert MCARTHUR & Marion Allison MUIR HELP please......

[b1b2j3]

Where does my Great GrandFather come from? ROBERT MCARTHUR - Plumber Journeyman 1867-1904 (Glasgow).

I have his wife, his daughter, his daughters daughter (My Mum). I do not have his Mother (Agnes McLay) nor his Father John McArthur. I don't have his siblings, maybe Daniel Mcarthur born 1864 & John (jnr) born 1862 in Bellshill, Lanarkshire? Or was the Family from Glassary? Do not have a clue ! I'd like to find out before my Mother dies.

But where is Robert from? Who owns Robert. My Mum doesn't know. She's still shell shocked she has a history of the MUIR & BANNATYNE Family !! I can't get any sense past the silly grin on her face.

In the past three years I have been an obsessive Family geneo person. I have worked out, with great assistance & generosity, my 83 year old Mothers Family history (Bannatyne). She thought she had no relatives !!! Her nephew is now discovered by his sons curiosity. Her Father's first child & first marriage. Burden Bannatyne Boulding.

I also tripped over my EADIE cousin Andrew. We are busy joining the facts now.

The Bannatyne etal Family took a truck load of $$ from GROS off my now limited budget. I decided I wouldn't go the one name route. Now I have a trailer load of Ballantyne Bannatyne Ballentine Ballantine Family references. All Argyll to Glasgow.

Now for the McArthur. Maybe they were Mcartney ? My Great GrandFather Robert McArthur died in Glasgow in 1904 of viral meningitis. He was a plumber. This is fact.

He married Marion Allison MUIR. Birth: Marion Allison Muir. 24th September, 1864. Address- 53 1/2 Stirling St, Milton, Glasgow. Parents listed as William Muir, Flesher Journeyman and Margaret nee: Wares. Their marriage listed as 20th October, 1863, Calton District, Glasgow. GROS- 644/071285. Another tut! tut! boring fact. Who was Robert Mcarthur or Mcartney?

References are:

1. Census: 1901 UK. Parish-Glasgow. Parish Ward- 2nd or, Whitevale (?). City-Glasgow. St John, Camlashie. Marion & Robert McArthur with Allison daughter. 132 Durie St, City Glasgow. Robert (34). Occupation- Plumber. Born Auchinlesk (?). Marion (35). Born Caithnessshire Wick. Allison (9). born Portobello, Midlothian. GROS reference not recorded by me.. missed it !.

2. District of Dennistoun, County Lanark. Liarefield St, Glasgow. Aged 37. Parents listed as John McArthur Iron mine Manager (dec) and Agnes nee: McLay (dec). Married to Marion nee: Muir. death cause- Viral Meningitis. Occupation- Plumber.

3. Copy Extract (CE). RXB6(C)976. Birth-26.10.1891. Allison Muir Mcarthur. Born 5 Ramsay Plce, Portobello, Scotland. Father- Robert McAthur. Plumber Journeyman. Mother- Marion nee: Muir. Marriage date- 16.02.1891. Glasgow.

4. Birth: Marion Allison Muir. 24th September, 1864. Address- 53 1/2 Stirling St, Milton, Glasgow. Parents listed as William Muir, Flesher Journeyman and Margaret nee: Wares. Their marriage listed as 20th October, 1863, Calton District, Glasgow. GROS- 644/071285

5. NSW Registry BDM: http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au Registration Number 24378/1950. Last Name MALTWOOD Given Name(s) ALLISON Father's Given Name(s) ROBERT Mother's Given Name(s) MARION. In the- District of MARRICKVILLE, NSW, Australia.

My GrandMother and John Burden Bannatyne's second wife. My Mother's Mother and John Burden Bannatyne is my Mother's Father.

5. Lists Parents of Muriel Bannatyne as Allison Muir McArthur born Portobello (31) and John Burden Bannatyne born Stirling (45). Lists Marriage date as 13 Feb, 1920, Glasgow Scotland. Place of Muriel's birth- Subiaco, Perth West Australia.

6. 24 August 1873. Bellfield Hse, Stirling. After Banns- Free Church Scotland, Stirling. Wm MacKinnon Bannatyne (Inverness) and Mary nee: Burden (Bellfield, Stirling). Marys parents- John Burden (Brewer) deceased and Ann nee: Eadie. Wm parents- Archibald (Thatcher) and Janet both deceased. CE-1978612. Married by Rev. Bannatyne Frre Church Paisley. Witnesses- James Tindal (?) & Elizabeth Eadie.

Please, where's Robert McArthur McArtney and his Family ?

[DavidWW]

Good question!!

On the 1901 census record it's tempting to read Robert's place of birth as Auchinleck (in Ayrshire), but there's an Auchinloch in Cadder parish in N Lanarkshire, and looks like it's one of the mining villages in Mavis Valley.

On the 1901 census, note how the enumerator hasn't a county name alongside the place of birth for Robert, but there is such for the next three entries that involve Caithness, Midlothian and Ayrshire, - in other words I'd suspect that the place of birth for Robert is in Lanarkshire.

David

[Jack]

Hi folks,
Maybe Robert was born in Ayrshire?
Auchinleck is just west of Lugar.
--
1881 Census Place: Liberton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Dwelling: 5 First Avenue
Source: FHL Film 0224022 GRO Ref Volume 693 EnumDist 5 Page 24
John MC ARTHUR M 54 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Coal Miner
Agnes MC ARTHUR M 53 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
Duncan MC ARTHUR U 20 M Dundonald, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Coal Miner
Alexander MC ARTHUR U 18 M Saltcoats, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Painter
Robert MC ARTHUR U 15 M Lugar, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Plumber
Isabella MC ARTHUR 12 F Lugar, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
James LAWRIE U 20 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Painter
--
Jack
ps, it does look like the name was McCARTNEY to begin with.
--
JOHN MCCARTNEY
AGNES MCLAY
Marriage: 08 DEC 1850 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
--
1851 census 644-2 (623-2) Ed 2 p 14 (Maryhill)
John McCARTNEY, 24
Agnes McCARTNEY, 23
Janet McLAY, 16
Isabella McLAY, 12
--
1861 census 597 Ed 22 p 26 (Kilmarnock)
John McCARTNEY, 35, b Glasgow
Agnes McCARTNEY, 33, b Glasgow
William McCARTNEY,10, b Glasgow
James McCARTNEY, 8, b Glasgow
John McCARTNEY, 6, b Glasgow
Archibald McCARTNEY, 4, b Glasgow
--
A useful 1855 BC -
JOHN MC ARTNEY
Birth: 28 SEP 1855 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: JOHN MC ARTNEY & AGNES MC CLAY
--

[DavidWW]

Hi folks,
Maybe Robert was born in Ayrshire?
Auchinleck is just west of Lugar.
--
1881 Census Place: Liberton, Edinburgh, Scotland
Dwelling: 5 First Avenue
Source: FHL Film 0224022 GRO Ref Volume 693 EnumDist 5 Page 24
John MC ARTHUR M 54 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Coal Miner
Agnes MC ARTHUR M 53 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
Duncan MC ARTHUR U 20 M Dundonald, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Coal Miner
Alexander MC ARTHUR U 18 M Saltcoats, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Painter
Robert MC ARTHUR U 15 M Lugar, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Plumber
Isabella MC ARTHUR 12 F Lugar, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
James LAWRIE U 20 M Edinburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Painter
--
Jack

....snipped .........--

That's the man.

Duncan is registered as Duncan McARTNEY, parents John McARTNEY and Agnes McARTNEY MS McLAY, married 1851 August 31st Glasgow.

Alexander is registered as Alexander McARTHUR, parents John McARTHUR and Agnes McARTHUR MS McLAY, married 1849 January 1st at Glasgow.

Isabella is registered as Isabella McCARTNEY, parents John McCARTNEY and Agnes McCARTNEY MS McLAY, married 1849 Decemr 31st, Milton, Glasgow.

And the man in question is registered as Robert McCARTNEY corrected to McARTNEY, parents John McCARTNEY (corrected to McARTNEY) and Agnes McCARTNEY (corrected to McARTNEY) MS McLAY, married about January, Barony, Glasgow ............ but registered in Auchinleck, not Lugar.

David

PS On wee Archibald's birth registration, his mother's maiden names is shown as McLEAN !!
dww

[b1b2j3]

Jack & David....Gawd you blokes are good ! I have the 1850 original of Marriage Agnes and John. Bought it about 3 years ago. And from that point confusion reigned... All because I couldn't quite get the Auchinleck reference & was confused by the names. Only recently I decided to forget the Mcartney & start again.

Fabulous. I owe you both a good meal ! Out the back on the barbeque. Kangaroo. Yes, that's tonights meal. Roo and salad.

I am gob stopped...

Thanks blokes ! Bron

[b1b2j3]

Hi folks,
Maybe Robert was born in Ayrshire?
Auchinleck is just west of Lugar. And the man in question is registered as Robert McCARTNEY corrected to McARTNEY, parents John McCARTNEY (corrected to McARTNEY) and Agnes McCARTNEY (corrected to McARTNEY) MS McLAY, married about January, Barony, Glasgow ............ but registered in Auchinleck, not Lugar. David. dww

I am very grateful to you two for helping me regain my sanity. We did eat roo on the barbeque today...& roo sausages. Yum. Wish you were here. We had iceberg lettuce salad with- fetta stuffed peppers, char grilled anti pasto, vine tomatoes in an exquisite olive oil marinade. When youse come, I'll make it for you. And maybe like today, we can sit out on the verandah and look at the sunset. However, my husband won't be cooking... an American, he burnt the barbie ! Roo should be quickly seared and cooked in a sauce.

Hey, I'm no chef, middle class twit or raving lunatic thanks to you two fellas, now), I'm just a good roo cook !

Bronwen nee: Field, Betty Bannatyne's daughter, Robert Mcarthur McCartneys Grand daughter and Agnes nee: McLay and John McCartney's GGDaughter. Onward and forward in the research of the two name study !!! Never fond of one-name studies ! So tut! tut! righteously ""accurate"" , not.

Which name do you think best survived McCartney or Mcarthur ? Was the name changed because the Family were of Irish origin? Or a transcription error insitu ? (I have original copy & its McCartney Marrying McLay).

Bron

[DavidWW]

Bron

I can just about imagine an Irish pronunciation of McArthur being (mis)heard and recorded as McCartney/McArtney........ or maybe there was a name change.

David

[b1b2j3]

Bron

I can just about imagine an Irish pronunciation of McArthur being (mis)heard and recorded as McCartney/McArtney........ or maybe there was a name change.

David

Both. Pronunciation & name change, in my view. Given the 12 year or so gap between children to Robert etal.

Maybe the name change was unintentionally given or recorded. In my view the change of name & the consequences from my end, have been quite apparent. For a number of years.


I came from Mcarthur and found McCartney (Irish).

I wondered why my GrandMother (Allison Muir McArthur) Robert's daughter & GrandFather (John Burden Bannatyne) bothered to immigrate to Australia in 1921 via a little stop off to Ireland to have my uncle Ian. My Mother born 1923 in Subiaco, West Australia.


I came from Bannatyne Clark Ballantine Ballantyne of Argyll (Kintyre Campbeltown) & Bute and found Ballantine of Ireland & Argyll.

I was recently found by John Burden Bannatyne's first wife's children. Irish born & bred. My & Mum's nephew. My cousin.

As you can see, name change is not new to me. But this "discovery" by yourselves assists greatly here.

Bron
<duplicate post deleted, LesleyB>

[b1b2j3]

Bron

I can just about imagine an Irish pronunciation of McArthur being (mis)heard and recorded as McCartney/McArtney........ or maybe there was a name change.

David

Was being "Irish of origin" a poor census choice between say 1820 and 1850?

Bron

[DavidWW]

Bron

I can just about imagine an Irish pronunciation of McArthur being (mis)heard and recorded as McCartney/McArtney........ or maybe there was a name change.

David

Was being "Irish of origin" a poor census choice between say 1820 and 1850?

Bron

Not necessarily.

David