John Cromie murdered 1886

[ninatoo]

Hi all,

I was browsing at NAS and came across a record for court proceedings regarding the murder (by Daniel Rafferty) of John Cromie from Irvine, Ayr in 1886. Daniel was found guilty and was sentenced to five years penal servitude at Ayr High Court. Because I have Crombie in my family lines, I got a bit curious about this and did some digging in order to see if this man is connected to my tree.

Well I believe he is, but I can't really prove it without a doubt, as after finding his marriage and death registrations, there is no match to Crombie or Crommie on my tree (and the mother's surname is different on each one). His parents do not seem to have died in Scotland, so it makes the connection more difficult. However when he married, one of the witnesses was an Agnes Carson, and she IS in my tree. And her aunt was a Crombie.

So with this tentative connection, I am really curious to find out the circumstances of his death. I did a free search at the Scotsman, but nothing came up. He died in the Cunningham Combination Poorhouse in Irvine Ayr, and there is a RCE on the death notice (no cause of death is recorded on the form at all).

The odd thing is that I keep thinking that I have read about this case before somewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it anywhere on the net now! Admittedly, it may have just been a similar case, not the exact same one.

Can anyone help please?

Nina

[LesleyB]

Hi Nina
I wonder if it might be worth trying some local newspapers for the area. I would have thought that a murder trial was almost surely reported so perhaps worth chasing up some Ayrshire Archives who may have back copies of microfilms of local newspapers.

Maybe try:
Baird Institute
3 Lugar Street
Cumnock
East Ayrshire
KA18 1AD
http://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/comser/ ... sp?UIN=119

Dick Institute
Elmbank Avenue
Kilmarnock
East Ayrshire
KA1 3BU
http://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/comser/ ... asp?UIN=56

Best wishes
Lesley

[Jockbird]

Hi Nina,

Just checked on www.ayrshire-roots.co.uk on the Poor Relief application search. No John Cromie's mentioneed but these are the John Crombie's

Crombie John 45 Ireland 72 2170847-3 married
Crombie John 47 Ireland 72 2170847-3 married to Susannah Park
Crombie John 49 Ireland 72 2170847-3 married to Susannah Park
Crombie John 44 Ireland 4 2170847-5 married
Crombie John - Ireland 13 2170847-5 married
Crombie John 63 Ireland 102 2170847-6 widow, aka Crummie
Crombie John 64 Ireland 108 2170847-6 widower aka McCrummie
Crombie John 66 Ireland 134 2170847-6 widower aka Crummie

That's all the information it gives, I don't know which poorhouse they relate to though.

You may want to email North Ayrshire Library, they are very helpful. They can be contacted on:- localhistory@north-ayrshire.gov.uk

Good luck
Donna
x

[ninatoo]

Thanks very much Lesley and Jockbird. I will investigate those possibilities soon. I am getting a lot of work lately but it is cutting down my research time. Money vs Tree, money vs tree....hmmmm. Well Christmas is coming!

Nina

[ninatoo]

Hi Lesley and Donna,

Just an update on this post. I finally wrote to Ayrshire Roots and they searched around and found a newspaper report on this, and are sending it to me by post! I am very excited about this. They are fantastic folk there; they have helped me with another query in the past too!

Did they have Coroner's Reports or equivalents in 1886? I think I read NOT, but I thought I would make sure.

Nina

[Jockbird]

Hi Nina,

That's excellent news. they are a fantastic bunch at the North Ayrshire Library.

'Fraid I can't help you re the coroner's report, I'm not that knowledgable but there are other on here who are!!!

All the best
Donna
x

[DavidWW]

Hi Lesley and Donna,

Just an update on this post. I finally wrote to Ayrshire Roots and they searched around and found a newspaper report on this, and are sending it to me by post! I am very excited about this. They are fantastic folk there; they have helped me with another query in the past too!

Did they have Coroner's Reports or equivalents in 1886? I think I read NOT, but I thought I would make sure.

Nina

Back then the High Court of Justiciary trial "report" consisted of little more than the name of the judge, that of the panel (accused), names of jurors, the charge, possibly names of witnesses, and the verdict.

Interested newspapers carried virtually verbatim reports of the trial.

There's never been coroners in Scotland. The process was that any unusual, suspicious or violent death was reported to the Procurator Fiscal, who then determined if any further action was required, including a criminal charge.

From 1895 onwards he could decide that a Fatal Accident Inquiry should be held in the Sheriff Court.

David

[LesleyB]

Hi Nina

Just an update on this post. I finally wrote to Ayrshire Roots and they searched around and found a newspaper report on this, and are sending it to me by post! I am very excited about this. They are fantastic folk there; they have helped me with another query in the past too!

How exciting!! Thanks for the update!

Best wishes
Lesley

[ninatoo]

Hi all,

I received my letter from North Ayrshire Library which contained an article about the case. John Cromie was badly beaten ten days before he died, and doctors said cause of death was likely to be congestion of the brain and its membranes due to the beating. So sad that this only was worthy of five years imprisonment. I suppose Daniel Rafferty just meant to give him a hiding, not kill him, but the accounts state that it was a viscious attack.

Unfortunately there is no clue in the article which might link John Cromie to my tree. I can't find him on the censuses either, to see if he was even born in Ireland, but I suspect he was, given that there seems to be some sort of snide reference to it in the court. His parents are supposed to be Andrew Cromie and Sarah Moore (marriage registration) or Johnston (death registration) but there is nothing at IGI.

Oh well...it was fascinating reading anyway.
Nina

[Marna]

Hi, Hope you are still researching this. I have information on his spouse. On marriage he gives age as 27, on the 1881 census he is down as 34 and born in Ireland and on death he is 35. His wife lived to 1936. If you want more please email me as MarnATfreyrsden.co.uk
Marna researching the Whitelaw line

Edited to avoid spammers (AT = @)