Request for knowlege

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:00 am

I have just found your wonderful site and am hoping for pointers.
I have just found my ggg grandfahter's obituary in family papers from when he died in 1844. It appears to be a copy of page 113 from a book in Lanarkshire, Scotland. Also on the same page is an article titled "A Visit Among The Ruins of Nineveh".
The obituary is incorrectly titled "OBITUARY OF ROBERT GARDNER". As can be seen below, it is the obituary of WALTER GARDNER.

"Died,on Monday the 21st of April last, in Ramsay, Canada West, in the 62nd year of his age, Walter Gardner. He was born of religious parents, both members of the Reformed Presbyterian Church in Scotland. His father was ruling elder in the Reformed Presbyterian Congregation of Wishawton under the Pastorial care of the late Rev. Archibald Mason, D. D. His grandfather adhered to the covenanted Reformation under the faithful ministry of our martyred Renwick, and remained with the societies when left without a fixed pastor after the Revolution settlement. He was instructed early in the principles of the covenanted testimony. This testimony was dear to him as he embraced it from a deep sense of duty. He was formerly a member of the Wishawton congregation and latterly of the Reformed Presbyterian congregation of Ramsay .... " (shortened version)

Could someone please help me?

1. What type of book would this be and where would it be found?
2. Would I be able to find any information of his father ( we have the names of William Gardner/Gardiner & Mary Brown, nothing else) knowing he was an elder in the Reformed Church of Presbyterian Congregation?
3. and hope upon hope would I be able to find who is Grandfather was if I knew where to look?

Walter and his wife Caecila Lindsay were married Aug 13, 1815, in Shotts according to IGI Individual Record Family Search, International Genealogical Index v5.0 , British Isles, Old Parochial registers 1705 - 1855 of the Church of Scotland.
They came to Canada in 1821 on the "David of London"

Hope I've chosen the correct place to post this.
Thanking you in advance for any assistance.
Izzie

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:27 am

Hi Izzie

Welcome to TalkingScot

I'd suggest that you contact the Mitchell Library - see the "Libraries" tab above and seek their advice on the likely source, - most probably a compilation of biographies of weel kent men of Glasgow/Lanarkshire, - possibly also one of the several national dictionaries of biography, - but I'd suspect the former.

For the Ruins of Ninivah see http://research.yale.edu:8084/missionpe ... jsp?id=746 - there might just be some connection............

David

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:55 am

Hi Izzie
I wonder if the line:

His grandfather adhered to the covenanted Reformation under the faithful ministry of our martyred Renwick

suggests is is a church publication? Could it be a Church magazine or similar?

Best wishes
Lesley

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:33 am

Thank you both for your replies. Yes I too believe that was a church paper as the Gardners were of strong Conventor stock and remained so for many years after coming to Canada. From this distance it is difficult to ascertain in which area to even start looking in, Thanks for the library connection, it's a new avenue. Apparently William & Mary were well off so maybe he'll show up in "biographies of weel kent men of Glasgow/Lanarkshire"
We might get lucky, after all its only been about 40 years of looking, what's a few more.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Izzie

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:40 am

Hi Izzie

If he was married Aug 13, 1815, in Shotts then that may suggest one or both of the parties came from that area - have you seen the OPR entry - any clues there? Sometimes OPR entries will state what parish the bride & grrom were from, but not always.

There are a couple of IGI submission which suggest he came from Ravenshole, Shotts, Lanark, so that might be a starting point to either prove or disprove - the submitter may have guessed Shotts as his location as that is where he married, Ravenshole may have come from the OPR marriage entry. You may be able to find out more about what that person submitted at a local LDS centre - with the submission there are two children for the couple, who I'm sure you are already aware of:

1. Robert Gardner
Birth: APR 1816 Ravenshole, Shotts, Lanark, Scotland

2. William Gardner
Birth: 08 SEP 1818 Wester Windyedge, Shotts, Lanark, Scotland

I would think there must be some kind of central point of contact for the church too.. e.g. http://www.rpcscotland.org
although from that site you would be led to beleive there are only the two churches which does not quite seem right... there is always the slim chance the church just may hold some other reocrds - just a thought.

Best wishes
Lesley

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:53 am

LesleyB wrote:.......snip........although form that site you would be led to beleive there are only the two churches which does not quite seem right... there is always the slim chance the church just may hold some other reocrds - just a thought.

Best wishes
Lesley

It's only a wee church, - and there are only two congregations currently!

David

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:18 pm

Hi David

It's only a wee church, - and there are only two congregations currently!

Well, well, as I've mentioned before - you learn something new every day on here!

Best wishes
Lesley

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:02 am

Lesley & Dave, Thank you for the additional information. The birth records are only on fiche at Salt Lake, Utah which they won't send out to the Family Centers, but the the marriage record is on film & they have just opened a centre here in Victoria BC so that is worth a try.
The church contact is wonderful, perhaps they have some information that could be useful as to where the old records are kept.
Thanks again
Izzie

Davie · Post by **Davie** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:35 pm

Hi Izzy,
You are quite right; the Gardner’s were of strong Covenanting stock.
I think David is correct in his assumption that the obituary comes from a collection of biographies or tracts rather than an individual church sketch.
Page one hundred and thirteen suggests this.
If you were over here and took it to the Mitchell, someone would be able to tell you what the page came from.
I have done that for several obscure documents, with guid results.
Alternatively, you could put it in the Gallery on here.
And see if anyone can help.
They are good on these things on TS.
I cannot think of anything else at the moment.
However, what a treat to have the obit. in your family records.
How odd that they made a mistake with the names, Robert instead of Walter.
Is there any mention of who wrote it or any other names mentioned?
I notice that you also have Waddell in your list of family names.
Walter Gardner and James Waddell were among the founding members of the First Covenanting Congregation in Canada.
There is only one child registered on the OPR that I can see, to Walter and Caecilia Lindsay.
William Lindsay Gardner 1817 in Shotts.
That is the first time I had come across the given name, Caecilia.
Interestingly enough there is a birth in Shotts, of another Caecilia Lindsay in 1805.
If nothing else, ah’m full of trivia.

I’ll keep my eyes open for any other Gardner entries in Kirk records etc
Davie

Izzie · Post by **Izzie** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:00 am

Hi Davie, Thanks for your reply and suggestion to post the obit, I am, when I figure out how, posting it and a picture of the Reformed Pres. Church as well. This picture was taken by my aunt in the 60's and shows what it had become.
"How odd that they made a mistake with the names, Robert instead of Walter." I think they, like we can do, made a typo.
"I notice that you also have Waddell in your list of family names."
This is an entry from our family book:
"James Waddell came from Lanarkshire, Scotland in 1831. They were at sea from June until August and came to settle on the west half, Lot 1, Concession 9, Pakenham Twp, Lanark County. James Sr was a stone mason and an ardent Covenanter. He was largely responsible for reorganizing the church at Bennies Corners after it had been discontinued twice. He was an elder in the church and in secular affairs he served as a town commissioner. In his early days of farming when livestock was scarce he used to plough with a horse and a cow hitched together."
Their son John, b 1827 married Jane Bowes, b 1831, daughter of Thomas Bowes/ Jannet Dick, on May 05, 1823, Lanark Cnty.
Another daughter of Thomas & Jannet, Elizabeth, b June 25, 1835, married Walter Gardner Jr b May 16, 1825, s/o Walter b 1782 and my gg grandfather.
"Walter Gardner and James Waddell were among the founding members of the First Covenanting Congregation in Canada."
This I knew but I'm curious if you have additional written reference to this information.
Walter & Caecelia(was also spelled Cecilia) actually had 3 children, 2 we knew of, Robert b 1816, & William Lindsay b 1818. However checking the LDS site I have discouvered that Robert b 1816, died in 1816 and they had another Robert they say b1817 . When they came to Canada they had 2 children, 1 1/2 yrs old & 3 1/2 yrs old. so I would suspect he would have been younger than William.Unfortunately we don't know what happened to them.
Family story says Walter's father, William, came out and returned to Scotland with them. Fact or Fiction ?
Family tales also say William was the one that took out the land deed for his son Walter as he would have been too old for the grant himself .
William & wife Mary Brown are who I'm really looking for as we have no information on them.
Family book ref " William & wife Mary Brown, according to people who knew them in the early days "were people of fine family and sterling worth" They were fine people accustomed to having plenty of this world's material goods."
Nor do I have any info on Caecelia Lindsay or her family, maybe the birth you found is a relation. There were additional Lindsays that also came on the David of London & it has always been thought she and they were related but we can't prove it.
Just of intrest, the farm settled in 1821 is still in the direct family line, one of the few in Lanark County.
"If nothing else, ah’m full of trivia." . Sometimes can reveal the most important clues.
Thank you for your response.
Izzie