where to go from here !!.....

frances · Post by **frances** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:19 pm

I have tried unsuccessfully to locate the birth place in Ireland of my Great Great Grandparents . All I am able to find is that William Kelly/Kelley and Sarah Burns were born 1831 & 1841 somewhere in Ireland.

They were married 20th June 1858 in Coatbridge and their children William John, Joseph, Mary, Patrick, Edward and Maryann were all born in Lanarkshire.

All documentaion I have found lists there place of birth as Ireland, with no county given.

Can anyone suggest other routes to take as as running out of ideas of where to look next.

Thanks

Frances

Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:51 pm

Hi Frances,

Does their marriage certificate give the names of their parents on there?
If so, could you post them on here?

With that you may be able to get a BIVRI search, unfortunately I don't have the discs, but some kind soul may be able to do a look up on here.

Another option is to have a look on Ancestryireland.com, they have some coverage for Antrim or Down births but they are quite common names.

Neither of them had the need to make Poor Relief applications did they? That sometimes gives some vital info.

Good luck, I know what you are going through, I have Scotts, Hardys and Reas missing in action over there around a similar time frame.

Donna

x

emamc · Post by **emamc** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:17 pm

Hi Frances

I found my ancestors birthplace in the poor records at the Mitchell Library. Worth a shot. The records are very comprehensive and listed her place of birth, parents names, children and their spouses and her grandchildren. Good-luck!!!

Elizabeth

Post by **emanday** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:12 pm

Hi Frances,

Had a look on my BIVRI discs and found that entering William Kelly birth 1831 +/- 5 years gives 4 results...

Kelly, Gulielmum (all Catholic marriages, hence the latin spellings for William and the parents' given names)

11 January 1827 - Taunagh, Sligo
Father: Thomae Kelly
Mother: Margaritae Taylor

Kelly, Gulielmus
29 September 1829 - Athlone and Drum, Roscommon
Father: Gulielmi Kelly
Mother: Mariae Reily

Kelly, Gulielmum
21 October 1833 - Strokestown, Roscommon
Father: Edvardi Kelly
Mother: Mary Mc Andrew

Kelly, Gulielmum
19 May 1835 - Laughlin, Roscommon
Father: Michaelis Kelly
Mother: Mariae Higins

Couldn't find a marriage to Sarah Burns, or a marriage of Sarah Burns to any Kelly.

With the children having been named William John, Joseph, Mary, Patrick, Edward and Maryann, any of them could be a prospect. Hope this is of help.

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:26 pm

Hi Frances,

As well as the parents names on the marriage cert. who were the witnesses? Hopefully relations. Also were parents dead or alive at time of marriage? Address? You might be lucky enough to find one of the above in one of the census with a more detailed place of birth. It certainly won't be easy though, with names like Kelly and Burns(possibly Byrnes and variations, so have to watch the wildcards).

I would look first of all in the same registration district that they were married in.

Jockbird · Post by **Jockbird** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:06 pm

Hi Frances,

Yes, I'd have thought that if Sarah died in the poorhouse that she would probably have an application to be there. I'm not sure where the Airdrie records would be kept, you may be best posting a quick question on the Institutions page.

I've just had a quick free search on SP using all sorts of wildcards but nothing comes up. I'm wondering if it was a Catholic marriage, I'm not sure what happens re registration for those but I'm sure someone on here will.

Fingers crossed there is a Poor Relief App for you to get more info from.

Good luck
Donna

x

frances · Post by **frances** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:44 pm

Thanks Donna

Yes I'm sure that it was a catholic marriage. Pinning my hopes on some poor relief information.

Thanks again

Frances

hbaird · Post by **hbaird** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:06 am

Frances,

There are no detailed records held for Airdrie Poor House - anywhere. Apparently they were all destroyed. The only thing that survives in the Mitchell is the Governors Journal. Whilst it makes for an interesting read, there are no details of the inmates contained within it.

Helen

frances · Post by **frances** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:35 am

Thank you Helen

Bang goes my next line of research

Don't really know what avenue to take next.

Hopefully someone may recognize some of the names I am searching and be able to fill in the missing piece of the jigsaw as to where my KELLY/KELLEYS came from Ireland.

Thanks again

Frances

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:09 am

Hi Frances

As one of my favourite TV characters would comment, - "This does not compute".

A marriage in 1858 should have been recorded in the official Register of Marriages, regardless of the church involved.

In other words, even if the marriage was celebrated according to the rites of the Roman Catholic Church, then such a marriage should appear in the GROS Register of Marriages for that year, - otherwise, the celebrant was in serious trouble with GROS !!

OK, it was only third year after the introduction of state sponspored, civil registration of BMDs, but I have yet to come across an unregistered marriage in the first few years from 1855, - Scottish registrars, from the beginning, were tasked with actively investigating all possible events required to be registered that had occurred in their area of responsibility.

And I'm certain that the registrar for the area including Coatbridge would have been in regular contact with the local RC Priest (could, on reflection, be worth a look at the superintending registrars' reports, held at NAS's West Register House, just to see if there if any comment on local problems with the RC Church!).

The birth register entries of Joseph and Mary (twins) give a date etc. for the marriage of the parents as 1858 June 20th Coatbridge; that for Edward 1848 August [blank] Coatbridge; and that for Patrick 1858 Aug 2nd Coatbridge, possibly suggestive of an irregular marriage.

1848 is out of the question based on the age of Sarah in 1861 of 20 !!, but there is still a niggle at the back of my mind that this situation could have involved an irregular marriage.

That written, however, if an RC marriage was involved, then it is 99.9% certain to appear in the RC records!

David