Need help finding Bernard Sannachan.....

Susie Q · Post by **Susie Q** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:50 pm

I hope someone can suggest something before I go mad or bankrupt !
I have a census return for 1891. Bernard is living at 15, King Street, Glasgow, aged 32, with his wife, Margaret & family.
I also have his death cert. He died on 12th Feb., 1923, aged, 65. Going on those two pieces of info., I assumed that he was born in 1858-9, but I can't find him ! I've tried using wildcards in the surname as I've had problems before with Sanaghan, Sannachan, Sanachan etc.
His parents were John Sanachan and Jane Sim, but they also remain elusive. HELP.

Cath

AnnieMack · Post by **AnnieMack** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:25 pm

Not able to look at it cos at work right now but have you considered S*N*N or Sonnachan variations as it might have been spelled differently due to how it sounded, especially if the person registering his birth wasn't literate.

Just a thought,

Annie

Post by **paddyscar** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:55 pm

Hi Cath:

Since he is so elusive (as is his father) ... maybe by 1881, he was tired of trying to get his name pronounced or spelled correctly and just assumed an alternate spelling to give the best result.

SP cites one marriage between Bernard Sanachan and Margaret (no last name used in search) between 1875-80. A copy of that registration, may give alternate forms of parent's names and Bernard's place of birth.

Searching the census 1861-1881 produced no results with various spellings, but using first name = bernard and surname with wildcards s*n*n :

1881 - male - age 20-24 = 4 hits
1871 - male - age 10-14 = 1 hit
1861 - male - age 0-4 = 3 hits

Frances

Susie Q · Post by **Susie Q** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:16 pm

Thank you , Annie and Frances for your input. I've tried SP again, using your suggestions, still no joy.
Bernard married Margaret Burns on 28th Dec., 1878 at Bridgeton Congregational Church. His father, John's occupation is given as Coal Dealer. The spelling on this cert. is Sanachan.
By the way, I have a CD-Rom of the 1881 census, and there is only one Sanaghan ( different spelling again ) on it, John Sanaghan of Napiers Square. Is it supposed to be complete ?

Cath

grannysrock · Post by **grannysrock** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:23 pm

Hi Susie

I tried looking for a Bernard born to a Jane Sim on the IGI and came up with this birth :

BERNARD SANDS
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 15 JUN 1856 High Church, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN SANDS Family
Mother: JANE SIM

I haven't looked at the original - I'm not sure how one could get from Sanaghan to Sands, would have to be very bad writing, or a registrar who couldn't understand what he was being told by someone who didn't have the letters?

I couldn't see any other children born to this couple.

Sally

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi Sally

Since you know roughly where they were in the early 1900's and that he was still alive, it might be worth looking at the Valuation Rolls for Glasgow. They are on-line for either 1911 or 1913 at the Glasgow Story. They are a bit of a pain to trawl through as you have to load one page at a time then enlarge it to be readable but we found several relatives that way.
It would give you the name he was recognized by at that time and maybe help earlier searches.
http://www.theglasgowstory.com/index.php

You don't need to sign in on the site to be able to search it.

Russell

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:53 pm

Hi Cath (and everyone else involved)

The 1881 census has the following family in Clyde St, Glasgow, which is maybe worth looking at :

Robert Burns age 50
Margaret Burns age 51
Margaret Burns age 24
George Burns age 18
Bernard LANACHAN age 25
Robert LANACHAN age 3
Jane LANACHAN age 6 months

Bernard is listed as a boarder, and the two weans are his children. Could Margaret the younger have been the Margaret he married, still listed under her maiden name and all living with her parents?

There are a lot of discrepancies, but I've looked on the 1881 disc at all the Bernards in Scotland of about the right age (there aren't THAT many), and although there are a few Sannachans, no Bernards, and none with a surname that could be construed as Sanaghan in any form.

This is a wee devil, and I hope you can crack it.

Good luck.

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:14 am

Hi Cath,
Not sure if you already have these, but in case not.
The spellings on the SP may be different.
Taken from 1851 & 1861 name indexes. This Barnet in 1861 is born 1856 or 1857.
So Sally's finding of Bernard Sands looks very good.
--
1851 census 644-1 (562) Ed 11 p 11 (St. Johns)
John SANAGHION, 41
Jane, 34
Francis, 12
John, 7
Helen, 5
James, 2
Jane SIM, 60
--
1861 census 644-2 Ed 78 p 13 (High)
John SANACHAN, 50, b Ireland
Jane, 44, b Ireland
Francis, 22, b Ireland
Ellen, 16, b Glasgow
James, 12, b Glasgow
Mary, 7, b Glasgow
Barnet, 4, b Glasgow
James, 12, b Airdrie
--
Jack

pinkshoes · Post by **pinkshoes** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:21 am

John 25, Jane 25 and Frances Sanachan age 2 are in Barrack Street, Glasgow in 1841, just to complete the set. John's occupation is Cotton HLW.

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:34 am

It's well worth understanding which capital letters can be confused, - "L" and "S" are one pair.

Curious how difficulties gang up!, - see the 1881 census entry! Note that Margaret BURNS' marital status is shown as "M" for Married. Why Bernard is shown as "Boarder" instead of "Son-in-Law" can only be a matter for speculation.

A quick check on the birth register entry for wee Jane shows that she was born on August 25th at 4 Crownpoint Street in Camlachie in Glasgow, parents Bernard SANACHAN and Margaret SANACHAN MS BURNS, married 28th December 1877 in Glasgow. (Which is the correct date, but not registered until January 1878, so that it appears in the index for 1878, not 1877.)

Remember that the search engine on ScotlandsPeople allows a leading wildcard.

Congrats to all who have contributed to this detective story.

BTW, did I say difficulties "ganging up"

, - I'd be 100% certain that the 1856 birth of Bernard "SANDS" is the correct person. The parents match, and the father made his mark. If I try "SANACHAN" in a broad Ulster accent (not so sure about a softer S Irish accent....) I can just about imagine the registrar hearing and recording the surname as SANDS. The 1856 address is 72 Barrack Street which matches exactly the 1861 address ......... phew ......

David

Later PS Forgot to add that there are no other entries that match in the period 1855 to 1860 for the birth of young Bernard, Barnet or whatever .....
dww