William Fisher - Edinburgh, Hopetoun, Linlithgow Bridge and?

[jennyblain]

Hi all,
I've been very silent of late - needed to work round the clock on a book.. but will endeavour to catch up! My query just now is something I've just posted to an Edinburgh area list, but it isn't restricted to there. It's about one of my 'brick walls'.

William FISHER and Mary McCulloch married in September 1812, in St Cuthbert's, Edinburgh. I have a photocopy of the register entry. She was daughter of William McCulloch, Innkeeper at Linlithgow Bridge and from a Linlithgow family. He was a gentleman's servant at Hopetoun House - apparently with some association to Admiral Hope, as the Admiral instructed that William be paid a very good bonus (5 guineas) that year, possibly on the occasion of the wedding. William left this employment shortly after the marriage, signing for his pay at Hopetoun in January 1813 - Mary's father died in late 1812 and we think William went to help run the Inn. A daughter, Ann, was born there in 1813 and a son, William, in 1817.

At the time of the wedding, William and Mary were living at 6 Queensferry Street in Edinburgh. Queensferry Street is part of the complex of Charlotte Square, Hope Street etc. where the Hopetoun family had a townhouse and owned most of the area, so it seems likely that they were residing in Hope property. (I'm speculating if Mary may also have been employed by the Hopetoun family, briefly?)

William is my current brick wall. Don't know who he was, where he came from, or indeed what happened to him. In the 1841 census I can't find either William or Mary (though their son William may be in Coatbridge, as an apprentice shoemaker: he later returns to Linlithgow Bridge as a shoemaker, marries there, and then moves around a good bit and changes trade ending up in Ramsbottom, Lancashire, but that is another story). In 1851 Mary, described as Widow and going by her birth name of McCulloch, is proprietor of the inn (today's Bridge Inn) at Linlithgow Bridge. She was succeeded in this by her daughter Ann and son-in-law Robert Stewart. Ann's death cert. gives the occupation of her father William Fisher (the mystery William) as what looks like 'Huntsman'.

So, the brick wall: William Fisher appears at Hopetoun House, paid a good live-in-salary, in 1812. The most likely 'Admiral Hope' of the time was Admiral Sir George Hope, previously Captain Sir George Hope at the time of Trafalgar, a cousin of the Hopetoun family who had married a daughter of that family, and who had come to live at Hopetoun House around that time (1811-12), moving to London a year or so later. Admiral Sir George had a young son, again living in Hopetoun House at that time. What I'm seeking to learn is the connection of my William Fisher to Sir George - his personal servant? His son's servant? - and hoping to find anything further about William or where he may have been from.

The archivist at Hopetoun House has been very helpful, but has found records for William in 1812 only - William paid a salary of seventeen guineas (£17 17/-) there then, with an allowance of another £1 17/6 for something extra (clothing or perks? - as a 'gentleman's servant', presumably not livery, though if he was a 'gentleman's servant' to the child he might have been liveried.. any experts on this?). And the extra £5 5/-, that is five guineas, 'pr Admiral Hope's orders'! He apparently receives the salary at Martinmas, and he signs a receipt for it in January. Did he come with Admiral Hope's family from Carriden House, a bit further up the Forth? Or was he earlier a personal servant to Captain, now Admiral, Hope?

Does anybody have similar situations? Does anybody have access to bmd cds for the Lothians that might have more info on this? Does anybody have access to archives that might list servants of Naval officers, in the period between Trafalgar and 1812?

Hoping for some enlightenment... !

Jenny

[Ted]

Hi Jenny

Not sure if it will be much help - but - the occupation Huntsman could perhaps have two meanings - Gamekeeper (the Hopetoun Estate still has many and in the days of your ancestor there would have been lots more) - they mostly lived in the 'tied' cottages at Society (just east of Hopetoun House) and Woodside (north of the big house) - both within the Estate boundaries. The other possibility could be as a Huntsman (as in fox and hounds hunting) - the only one in that geographic area was the Linlithgowshire Hunt. The hunt kennels were at Threemiletown (3 miles east of Linlithgow) - right at the junction with the B class road to Philipston. In those days the Huntsman would most certainly have lived in the cottages at the steading. Most of the hunting could have occurred on the Hopetoun Estate - which is about 3 miles north of where the kennels stood.

As you would expect, the kennels are long gone and the site is now a steading development for housing. Andrew P is our maps expert here on TS - if you ask him nicely he may be able to give a link to a map showing the kennels at the time.

I am not certain the kennels at Threemiletown were in existence at the time of your ancestor - but they must have been at least 100 years old when they went into decline.

Best regards and 'good hunting' (so to speak).

Ted

[jennyblain]

Thanks Ted. Indeed the Linlithgow and Stirlingshire Hunt had at some point an association with the Bridge Inn, but I haven't found anything that confirms it might have done so at the time of William Fisher.

However, there's a book - 'The History of the Linlithgow and Stirlingshire Hunt. 1775-1910', by Rutherfurd, published Edinburgh (Blackwood) in 1911. I'd love to get my hands on this and next time I'm in Edinburgh will see if it's in the library. It might (just might) give some info that's relevant.

Don't suppose anybody has it and could take a look for me to see if there is anybody by the name of William Fisher associated with the Hunt between around 1817 and 1840s? (Very long shot, I know..) Also if anybody finds a copy in a second hand bookshop, please let me know.

Jenny

[DavidWW]

.....much snipped.......Also if anybody finds a copy in a second hand bookshop, please let me know.

Jenny

www.abebooks.co.uk has 4 copies but you'll need to be sitting down when you look at the prices

David

[jennyblain]

www.abebooks.co.uk has 4 copies but you'll need to be sitting down when you look at the prices

David

Saw! Hence I'll do the library thing at some time - as it is a very long shot!

However, I got some time on the ScotlandsPeople site today and found that William Fisher's daughter Ann Fisher or Stewart died testate... have bought and downloaded 14 pages of inventory and testament etc. and am going through that. Nothing at all about her father - but her mother Mary McCulloch seems to have been at some point in service at Balloch Castle and later in Edinburgh (I have found her in the 1841 census in St. Colme St) and seems also to have had some property which went to her daughter, to that Ann, the daughter, owned some land and some property in Linlithgow Bridge, including the Inn. I'd always thought they would be tenants - but here are listed the people paying them rent.

But, alas, nothing in all the 14 pages about the father, William Fisher (or indeed about Ann's brother William, from whom I'm descended..)

Jenny

[jennyblain]

Dear all,
I've posted my transcription of the inventory and testament regarding Ann Fisher or Stewart of Muiravonside - dated 1888 - with a wee bit of commentary at http://wyrdswell.co.uk/ancestors/Additi ... ption.html . It's a fine example of a late 19th century attempt to get the family in order and it has various sub-texts regarding which kin will be trustees and which not!

Have also somewhat updated the information on my Linlithgow and Linlithgow Bridge family, at http://wyrdswell.co.uk/ancestors/Additi ... shers.html .
In the course of deciphering the will of Ann Fisher or Stewart, I found that her son Wiliam Stewart went to Victoria, Australia... any descendants of his here?

Best New Year greetings,
Jenny