Need help with the Hogg Family.....

[AndrewP]

Although I believe the above info to be accurate, I like to see the originals. Where would I find the Kirk Session for this: NRH, NAS or somewhere in Larbert?

The answer seems to be "none of the above". I was expecting the NAS online index to say that NAS was the place to find the Larbert Kirk Session records. Wrong - their index says that these records are held by the Falkirk Council Archives.

Records of Church of Scotland synods, presbyteries and kirk sessions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CountryCode GB
RepCode 558
Repository Falkirk Council Archives
RefNo CH2/1326
Title Larbert, Old, Kirk Session
Date 1699-1962
AccessStatus Open
AccessConditions The records listed in this collection are not in the National Archives of Scotland. They are held by Falkirk Council Archives

A quick search on the web shows the Falkirk Council Archives to be at Callendar House, Falkirk. Full details on their website at http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/cultural/museums/call-ho.htm . I would recommend that you e-mail them (address on webpage) to confirm that they definitely have these archives and that you will be able to see them.

Peter seems to have died sometime between the 1841 and 1851 census. If a mort cloth log exists would it give me any clues as to his reputed father Robert Hog and possible family, and if so, where would I find these records…at NRH, NAS or Larbert and are they, or will these records be online?

If the Mort Cloth log exists, it is normally found in the OPR for that parish. According to the GROS list, the only deaths listed in the Larbert OPR are for years 1758 to 1761. There is a note with no further explanation, saying "see also Bothkennar OPR 473". Bothkennar has deaths listed for 1724-1794 and 1827-1846.


All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[Anne H]

Thanks for your quick reply and info Andrew. I'll have a look at the Falkirk website and be sure to email them and also enquire about Bothkennar OPR's before I visit...I have a feeling this isn't going to be easy.

Regards,
Anne H

[DavidWW]

What an interesting line!

While there may be some info somewhere that could help you it's going to be difficult to track Robert HOGG.

You certainly need to read the kirk session records, to see if, anywhere, there is a hint that could assist you, which you have not already seen.

The 1794 christening record in the OPR, with the father's name shown, tends to infer that the case against the alleged father was finally proved, he then "did his time" in terms of whatever penitence the session demanded, and they accepted that this entry could then be made in the parochial register. In other words, you need to ensure that you check the sessional records right up to that date, and a bit beyond. (e.g. "info has now come to hand to support the session's decision in the case of .....")

As well as the local sessional records, you should also have a look at the detailed records of the case in the presbytery records. These are normally somewhere in the CH series at NAS, - CH1, or CH2, or CH12. In this case best to ask the Falkirk library first if they have them, as it looks like they may have gone along with the sessional records to Stirling Council. If you are fortunate there might be a summary of the case in the papers sent to the presbytery ................

There are quite often mortcloth records in the sessional records which haven't made it into the OPR.

You need also to check with Central Scotland FHS to see how they are doing with the (Scottish) National Burial Index project in their area.

Whether or not Margaret would have needed to produce any proof of the death of her first husband before re-marrying?, - her marriage register entry clearly shows her as "Widow", - would depend on the session clerk who issued the banns. If he had known the family for some while, he might be aware of her circumstances. If not, he might have wanted to see some proof.......... The only way that the marriage could be prevented after the banns were called was for someone to object ....... Some session clerks were trusting souls, and some were only interested in the fee ........

Davie

[AndrewP]

As well as the local sessional records, you should also have a look at the detailed records of the case in the presbytery records. These are normally somewhere in the CH series at NAS, - CH1, or CH2, or CH12. In this case best to ask the Falkirk library first if they have them, as it looks like they may have gone along with the sessional records to Falkirk Council.

RefNo Title Date AccessStatus
[ 1 ] CH1/2/23/3 General Assembly Papers, Main series 1703 Open
[ 2 ] CH1/2/24/2/2 General Assembly Papers, Main Series 1705 Open
[ 3 ] CH1/2/28/3 General Assembly Papers, Main Series 1709 Open
[ 4 ] CH1/2/5/2 Church Papers 1700-1705 Open
[ 5 ] CH2/1326 Larbert, Old, Kirk Session 1699-1962 Open
[ 6 ] CH3/1273 Larbert, Free Church, East United Free, C of S 1843-1938 Open
[ 7 ] CH3/1312 Larbert United Presbyterian Church, West United Free, C of S 1898-1944 Open

Items 1 to 4 above are at NAS in Edinburgh (and are probably too early for what you are seeking) and items 5 to 7 above are at Falkirk Archives.

As well as the Falkirk Council Archives (at Callendar House on the east side of Falkirk), there is the main library in central Falkirk (by Grahamston Station) which has a Local Studies section with the local OPRs, censuses and more and a microfilm reader/printer. See http://www.talkingscot.com/links/libraries.htm and http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/commservices/ ... alkirk.htm for details.

(Edited in later after a word of advice from DavidWW)

RefNo Title Date AccessStatus
[ 1 ] CH2/722 Stirling, Presbytery of 1581-1975 Open
[ 2 ] CH3/286 Stirling, Presbytery of 1760-1929 Open

These records are kept at Stirling Council Archives, Unit 6 Burghmuir Industrial Estate, Stirling, FK7 7PY. http://www.stirling.gov.uk/index/a-z_of ... ails&id=44 Again an e-mail would be worthwhile, to make sure they have a space for you on your visit (e-mail address on webpage).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[WilmaM]

Visiting the History section at Callendar House, is a very interesting experience, do make time to do it armed with all your info. The lady in charge is very helpful.

Although you have to pay to get into Callendar House, if you say you wish to just visit the history section then you get in there free It's in the library and a wonderful room in itself.

Do make contact with them .

[Anne H]

Thank you, Davie, Andrew and Wilma!

I honestly wouldn’t have known where to start searching but now I know what to look out for and where to start and I have plenty of time to absorb your recommendations and visit all the different websites you provided to get things in order before going home in a couple of months. I did look at the Falkirk website last night…what a beautiful History section at Callendar House…I know it will be a very interesting experience…albeit, possibly a difficult task.

As to the 1794 christening record in the OPR…it’s good to know the case may have been finally proved. Actually the records show…”the said Robert Hogg had taken the child on his knee and desired her to get a boney name to it”…so he probably wasn’t a bad soul, although I’m sure his poor wife wouldn’t have been very pleased. It’s amazing the insight into the lives and times of these people you get from reading these records. I feel as if I’m right there in the late 1700’s…it’s great stuff!

Again, thanks very much for all your input and I’ll let you know how I get on…for now I’m off to visit the different websites you recommended.
Regards,
AnneH

[DavidWW]

Thank you, Davie, Andrew and Wilma!

I honestly wouldn’t have known where to start searching but now I know what to look out for and where to start and I have plenty of time to absorb your recommendations and visit all the different websites you provided to get things in order before going home in a couple of months. I did look at the Falkirk website last night…what a beautiful History section at Callendar House…I know it will be a very interesting experience…albeit, possibly a difficult task.

As to the 1794 christening record in the OPR…it’s good to know the case may have been finally proved. Actually the records show…”the said Robert Hogg had taken the child on his knee and desired her to get a boney name to it”…so he probably wasn’t a bad soul, although I’m sure his poor wife wouldn’t have been very pleased. It’s amazing the insight into the lives and times of these people you get from reading these records. I feel as if I’m right there in the late 1700’s…it’s great stuff!

Again, thanks very much for all your input and I’ll let you know how I get on…for now I’m off to visit the different websites you recommended.
Regards,
AnneH

Our pleasure

I still recall my first look at sessional records at NAS many moons ago !!

I got so deeply involved in the ongauins in the parish from meeting to meeting that when I next looked at my watch, 4 hours had passed, and it was dark outside (it was mid-winter!) ..............

For all readers, however, be aware that you may come across situations, particularly following a change of session clerk, sometime the meenister himsel, when previous verbose minutes, - and you are hot on the trail of solving an all-time family scandal, - change from the previous highly detailed multi-page minutes to the bare bones "This day the Sefsion met" and nothing more..............

I've also had the experience or tracing backwards through session minutes, matters getting more intersting by the meeting, only to come up against the brick wall of, - a new session clerk having taken over, - "The previous kirk session minutes are not available to me, having been kept in loose leaf, and having been taken away by the previous clerk" .........

Davie