Robert Peebles - Margaret Ramsay.....

[fmackay]

Hi there
Having a problem with the above couple - according to their son's marriage and death certificate his mother is down as Margaret Ramsay - however I can find no trace of a Margaret Ramsay married to Robert Peebles. There is however, a Ann Ramsay.
Can't find a birth entry for Alexander born c1851 in Crail,Fife(according to census). I looked up census for 1851 and sure enough there is an entry for the family of Robert and Ann with Alexander ,age 4 months.
On Robert's death cert his wife is down as Ann, his son David registered his death. On Ann's death cert her husband registered her death.

So how could their son,Alexander, make the same mistake twice?If it is a mistake.
Alexander married Ketty Manson and their children were:
Catherine Betsy Munro Peebles,Ann Dora Ramsay Peebles,Robert Alexander Peebles,Henrietta Jane Munro Peebles,Wilson(William Manson Peebles and Alexander Hugh Manson Peebles - no Margaret. Which makes me think there has been an error.
I guess there is no way of knowing?

bit of a mystery

[paddyscar]

Robert's Mrs. would have had input on the marriage certificate and likely the census too, and she refers to herself as Ann. Robert registers her death as Ann. David registers her name as Ann on Robert's death certificate. The only one who refers to Robert's wife as Margaret is Alexander.

I've no solutions, only questions because 3 of 4 people report her as Ann.

• Are you sure this is the marriage of the same Alexander (age 4 months) listed in the 1851 census with Robert & Ann?
  
  Have you located Robert/Ann/Margaret in the 1861 census with Alexander and other children, particularly David?
  
  If Alexander isn't with them in the 1861, have you checked for a death certificate for Alexander?

Just questions that may turn on a light ...

Frances

[fmackay]

Hi Paddy
thanks for your reply - as to first two questions - haven't checked that out but will do now - I have death cert of Alexander and his mother's name is down as Margaret!

this is where i got her name from initially.

thanks again
Fiona

[fmackay]

1861 census
Robert Peebles is there,widower, age 45. Oldest son is David,then Ann,Margaret,Alex,John,Thomas and Watson(?)being the youngest at 3 years old.

Fiona

[paddyscar]

Hi Fiona:

If Watson was 3, then Alex would have had to have been at least 6 when/if Robert remarried, so he would know that a second wife would not have been his mother.

Would her name have been Margaret Ann or Ann Margaret?

Frances

[trish1]

Just to mention - the document that really matters is the marriage certificate. Alexander would have provided these details himself. The death certificate would have been completed by spouse or child & they would only know what Alexander had told them (probably copied it from the marriage certificate). I have found incorrect information from a marriage certificate duplicated on a death certificate (in Australia, not Scotland)

If the family were using naming patterns, it looks as if the mother of father Robert was Margaret(2nd daughter). Could Alex have put his grandmother's name on his marriage certificate? As his mother died when he was young, could Grandmother have helped to raise the family?

The same naming patterns give the name of Alex's mother as Ann (2nd daughter) - which would assume he knew at this stage, his mother's correct name ??

Looking on the 1851 Census for any Peebles born in Crail There is
Alexander, the son of Robert and Ann.

There is also an Alexander aged 5 the son of Alexander and Margaret. They are living in St Andrews, father is an ag. labourer. Quite a few children. I assume your marriage certificate says his father is Robert?

Trish

[fmackay]

Hi there
Alexander Peebles married in 1878 and his parents were listed as Robert Peebles and Margaret Ramsay.

Robert Peebles,widower of Ann Ramsay died in 1871 - father listed as James, no mother's name listed. His death was registered by son David. There is no mention of a second wife.

Ann Peebles nee Ramsay died in 1860 age 42. Husband Robert was informant.

[jadonohue]

Hi
I have Alexander Peebles as b 30 Oct 1850 at Ferry Port on Craig. His parents were Robert Peebles bc 1806 at Carnbee and Ann Ramsay bc 1817 at Panbride, Angus. They married 15 Dec 1838 at Kingsbarns.
Robert was first married to Ann Dewar and when she died, he married Ann Ramsay. There were a few children from the first marriage, two sons, James and Robert emigrated to Tasmania, Australia in 1855. I think that the other children died young.
My connection to this family is through Alexander's brother, John Ramsay Peebles b 1853. His daughter, Ann Ramsay Peebles married John Patrick Baird in 1897 and emigrated to Brisbane Australia in 1927 with their sons.
I have done a lot of research on this Peebles family. Alexander also had a sister Mary b 25 Mar 1860 and d 11 Oct 1860 at Kilconquhar.
If your Alexander is the right connection to this family, he was only about 10 when his mother died. He had a sister Margaret who seemed to have become the housekeeper when their mother died. [ she d 6 Jan 1875] When the father Robert died in 1871, all of the children lived together with David as the oldest b Feb 1841, and Margaret as the housekeeper.
Robert bc 1806, parents were James Peebles and Margaret Scott. Most of the Peebles family were from around Carnbee, Kingsbarns, Kilconquhar areas. Robert appears to have moved around quite a bit, probably because he was an ag. labourer.
I also have Alexander as a witness to his brother George's marriage in 1875 to Maggie Carstairs. This is quite a large family and seems to have spread far and wide over the years. After tracing this family since 1994, I have only found one cousin of my father living in Yorkshire.

[fmackay]

Hi Annette
Many thanks for your reply! This certainly seems to be the family.

In the 1871 census David is head of family, unmarried, sister Ann is down as housekeeper,with his other sisters Margaret and Jane down as millworkers. Also listed are brothers Thomas age 15 and Watson age 13. Watson died in 1872.there are also two other children listed as neice and nephew but i am unable to make out what their names are.

So can I assume that Alexander's mother was in fact Ann Ramsay and not Margaret?

My main interest is Alexander as he married Catherine/Ketty Manson from Tongue,Sutherland and I have a connection with these Manson's. I have more information on Alexander and his family if you would like it.

Fiona

[jadonohue]

Peebles family on the 1841 census were at Kingsbarns. Alexander's mother was Ann Ramsay b 28 Sep 1816 at Saint Vigeans, Angus of David Ramsay and Agnes White. On the 1851 census, it states that she was from Barry. The marriage of Robert Peebles/ Ann Ramsay is also recorded at Barry 15 Dec 1838. Ann's mother died and David remarried to Jean/Jane Dorward. She has sometimes been cited as the grandmother/mother instead of the step-mother.

On the 1871 census, there are a niece and nephew as Ann [ Allison?] b 6 Jul 1864 and William [ Graham] b 7 Apr 1868. These are the illeg. children of the daughter Ann, b 10 Oct 1842. No father is mentioned on either birth certificate and this census is the only place that gives a clue to their father's names. On all later records, they are always as Peebles. To make it more confusing, Ann married her cousin William Peebles 26 Jun 1876. Both Ann's are later called Ann Ramsay Peebles as well as that also being my grandmother's name.
The children of Robert Peebles/Ann Ramsay were:-
David b Feb 1841, Ann b 10 Oct 1842, William b 21 Aug 1844, Margaret b 28 Mar 1846, George b 24 Jul 1847, Jane b 24 Feb 1849, Alexander b 30 Oct 1850, John Ramsay 24 Sep 1853, Thomas b 7 Feb 1856 and Watson b 14 Mar 1858, and Mary b 1860.
Most of these I've tracked down but I didn't have anything more on Alexander, after he was a witness on his brother's marriage. Thomas I believe became a policeman in England and don't have anything else on William. I have also checked all of the census records for this family. Anything that you can add on Alexander would be most welcome. I was answering the previous from memory [ which obviously isn't too good] Ann was the housekeeper not her sister Margaret.