ADVICE OR ASSISTANCE SOUGHT.....

[q98]

I would be extremely grateful for any advice or assistance in helping me locate the following:
Elizabeth McCREADIE (b. 22 Nov 1891 probably Ardrossan d. unknown)
Married 12 May 1916, Glasgow
John McDougall BLACK (b. unknown d. unknown)

I have located one child, a son David (b. 28 Nov 1916, Ardrossan d. 07 Aug 1991 Dunedin, NZ). David’s birth was registered in Register Book of Births for the District of New Ardrossan on 12 Dec 1916. David emigrated to NZ in 1924 - yes, 1924 with his grandparents.

Elizabeth and John DID NOT emigrate to New Zealand - no doubt about that. They disappear after 01 July 1921 when they signed a legal document at Ardrossan, Ayrshire. I have searched "Scotlands People" to no avail; probably due to the cut-off dates of records.

Any advice or assistance in locating Elizabeth and John McDougall BLACK after 1921 would be gratefully received.

Kindest regards.

[djcrtoye]

You could try and find them on the voters roll after that date. They would probably be in the archive section of North Ayrshire Council records. Hope this helps.

[AndrewP]

Hi Jim,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

There is a birth record on ScotlandsPeople that should be of interest to you.

1894 BLACK JOHN MCDOUGALL M ARDROSSAN OLD /AYR 576/01 0126

I agree with you that there is no sign of a death record for either of them up to 1956 in Scotland. If there is a death record for him up to 1956 in Scotland, then it must be without his middle name, leaving far too many JOHN BLACK possibilities to check out.

I take it you found the 1891 birth date from a later document. Ages and dates given further on in life are often a bit astray, so I would not see 1891 or 1894 as an obstacle.

As to where they went after 1921, I have no answers. You would need to have someone check the records for you in New Register House (Edinburgh) or Park Circus (Glasgow) to look up records that are beyond the cut-off dates for going online. One possibility is to ask GROS to undertake this search for you, and send on a copy of the certificate(s).

See http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/h ... flet2.html for further information and their prices.

All the best,

AndrewP

[wini]

Jim,

I have GG Grandmother Grace McCreadie, this family has nearly driven me to distraction as they have spelled their names McCreddie, McCradie (in the 1841 Census) McCready, McCreadie
They were principally from old Monkland although Grace"s mother Margaret Ferguson was born in Tarbolton. During my searches I found another family of McCreadies from Ayrshire which might be connected to you, if you think they might me let me know and I'll find the info. I know I kept it just in case I found a connection down the road

wini

[q98]

Many thanks for responses thus far.
1. Voters Rolls! Never thought of that one and I happen to have a contact at North Ayrshire Local History!

2. I concur, there are too many John BLACK possibilities to pursue. The 1891 Birth Date of Elizabeth was located in a legal document drawn up by a Seamill and Ardrossan Solicitor so one would presume it to be correct as the document could be presented as evidence in a Court of Law.

3. My McCREADIEs were descended from a Margaret and her daughter Mary. Margaret was, I believe, born c 1814 in Girvan but I have no idea when or where Mary was born. Mary gave birth to two illegitmate children; Mary (b. 28 May 1861, Ballantrae) and William (b. 07 Aug 1866, Ballantrae) – my great grand-father. When William married on 25 December 1885, his mother was Witness "Mary JONES, mother, Miners Wife").

4. A second McCREADIE family I am researching are John and Margaret (NELSON) McCREADIE who married on 09 June 1871 at Newton-on-Ayr, aged of 23 and 24 years respectively. Margaret was born at New Luce, circa 1847. Their parents, in turn, were John and Isabella (WALSH) McCREADIE and James and Margaret (INNIS) NELSON. James and Margaret were both deceased by the time of their daughter’s marriage. John McCREADIE was a Ballantrae fisherman while James NELSON was a Girvan blacksmith.

John and Margaret's children were Jane (b. 9am, 28 October 1873 at Main Street, Newton-on-Ayr), Isabella (b. 8pm, 05 May 1876 at 115 Main Street, Newton-on-Ayr) and John (b. 03 July 1879 at 8 Allison Street, Newton-on-Ayr). At the time of his daughters’ births, John Snr was a Stoker in a dredge boat, at probably Ayr. At 9pm, 02 August 1879, John Snr was killed, age 31 years; less than one month after the birth of his son. The location and cause of death were recorded as “On board No. 1 tug boat in Ayr Harbour” and “Crushed to death under the lever of an engine” respectively. The family domicile was recorded as “8 Allison Street, Newton Ayr". Margaret and the three children emigrated to Australia where John joined 15th Battalion, Australian Imperial Force (AIF). On 10 July 1917, he fell in action and died of his wounds later that day. He is buried in Strand Military Cemetery, Ploegsteert Wood, 2 miles south of Messines, Belgium and is commemorated on Panel 76 of the Australian War Memorial Rolls of Honour. My research on this individual is to be donated to the Historical Society in Newton-on-Ayr or closest location.

I would be extremely interested to receive data on any McCREADIE family. Please feel free to drop me a "pm" and we can x-reference.

Kindest regards and many thanks for your responses.

[Jack]

3. My McCREADIEs were descended from a Margaret and her daughter Mary. Margaret was, I believe, born c 1814 in Girvan but I have no idea when or where Mary was born. Mary gave birth to two illegitmate children; * Mary (b. 28 May 1861, Ballantrae) and William (b. 07 Aug 1866, Ballantrae) – my great grand-father. When William married on 25 December 1885, his mother was Witness "Mary JONES, mother, Miners Wife").

Hi Jim,
This, i know, isn't helping any on your original query on John BLACK & Elizabeth McCREADIE.
And i dare say you may well have all this.
-
But is this your G-GF William McCREADIE in 1881 with his GM Margaret b.Girvan about 1814?
You'll notice his sister is MAGGIE, and not MARY.
Did your William's sister Mary (b.1861) die quite young?

There were two Mary McCREADIEs having illegitimate children around the same time in Ballantrae....
(Note the birth months of June & November in 1859 - so two different mothers)
According to the IGI the BCs of these 4 children have no father recorded, and mother as Mary McCREADIE.
--
MARY MCCREADIE - Birth: 23 JUN 1859 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
* MARGARET MCCREADIE - Birth: 13 NOV 1859 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
* MARY MCCREADIE - Birth: 28 MAY 1861 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
* WILLIAM MCCREADIE - Birth: 07 AUG 1866 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
--
1881 Census Place: Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203592 GRO Ref Volume 579 EnumDist 1 Page 21
Dwelling: Shellknowe
Margaret MC CREADIE W 67 F Girvan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Housekeeper Domestic
* Maggie MC CREADIE U 22 F Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: General Serv Domestic
* William MC CREADIE U 15 M Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Grand Son Occ: Farm Servt General
--
And is this your William's mother, now as JONES?
1881 Census Place: West Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224024 GRO Ref Volume 701 EnumDist 11 Page 24
Dwelling: Blinkbonny
Robert JONES M 46 M (North), Wales Rel: Head Occ: Coal Miner
Mary JONES 42 F Girvan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Wife
Mary JONES 10 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Maggie JONES 7 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Jessie JONES 5 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur
John JONES 3 M W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Son
--
Jack
ps - What looks like the family in earlier censuses etc.
A bit of speculation though - based on the 1881 censuses above.
(sorry no more details - names mainly from IGI and census indexes)
But you most likely have already looked at all this too..!
--
JAMES MCCREDDIE
MARGARET DOAK
Marriage: 05 JUN 1835 Girvan, Ayr, Scotland
-- some children? -- [IGI has only the Female births for OPRs Ballantrae]
THOMAS born abt 1836?
MARY MCCREDIE - Christening: 25 FEB 1840 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland [your GG-GM, mother of William?]
MARGARET MCCREDIE - Christening: 22 MAY 1842 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
JEAN MCCREDIE - Christening: 09 MAR 1851 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
JAMES born abt 1853 Ballantrae
--
1841 census 579 Place: Ballantrae -Ayrshire Enumeration District: 9 Folio: 9 Page: 19
Civil Parish: Ballantrae Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Ballantrae
Address: Village
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MCCREDIE James M 25 Fisherman Ayrshire
MCCREDIE Margt F 25 Ayrshire
------------- Thomas M 5 Ayrshire (Surname not enumerated)
------------- Mary F 1 Ayrshire (Surname not enumerated) [GG-GM?]
--
1851 census 579 (478) Ed 9 p 14 (Ballantrae)
James McCREADIE, 40
Margaret McCREADIE, 37
Mary McCREADIE, 11 [GG-GM?]
Margaret McCREADIE, 8
David McCREADIE, 6
James McCREADIE, 4
Jean McCREADIE, 3 mos
Robert McCREADIE, 35 [possibly related to James?]
Janet McCREADIE, 31
Thomasina McCREADIE, 9
Robert McCREADIE, 7
Mary McCREADIE, 2
Jean McCREADIE, 2
--
1861 census 579 Ed 1 p 10 (Ballantrae)
James McCREADIE, 48, b Ballantrae
Margaret McCREADIE (DOAK), 44, b Girvan
Jane McCREADIE, 9, b Ballantrae
James McCREADIE, 7, b Ballantrae
Margaret McCREADIE, 1, b Ballantrae [gr-daur?]
--
This might be your GG-GM Mary - possibly living with a Robert Wright & family.
1861 census 579 Ed 6 p 9 (Ballantrae)
Mary McCREADIE, 21, b Ballantrae

(the other Mary McCreadie, 20, in Ballantrae 1861 is probably with her parents John McCreadie 46 & Mary Gordon 47,
and her daur Mary b.1859 is possibly with a family named Eaglesham)
====

[q98]

Thanks for all that info Jack. I now have to sit down and "plot" it out. I believe, in the end, it will all come to "probably" this and "probably" that, but at least it takes me farther along the line.

I do believe you are on the right track. Interesting to note that if the Mary JONES you located in Edinburgh IS William's mother, she travelled from Edinburgh to Ballantrae for his marriage - no mean feat in those days!

Again, many thanks.

Q98

[wini]

Jim,
I don't think the McCreadies you sent me by PM are mine but I will hang on to them as I have found in the past that you often find a connection down the track

See it is 40 Degrees in Perth today.

Kepp Cool
wini

[q98]

Thats exactly what to do Wini.

Last night's minimum was 26.5 at 2AM but by 3AM the tempwas back to 30 degs. Today is the third day in a row of temps in excess of 40 degs. Thank God for Mr Aircon! Spent the day in the cool watching the cricket with several cool beers - a terrible waste of a good day; yeah right!

Q98

[wini]

Good way to spend a hot day Jim
Can't expect much else in Perth at this time of the year.
It's better than the cold in Scotland

wini