Calling Paula!!!!

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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Jean Jeanie
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Calling Paula!!!!

Post by Jean Jeanie » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:25 pm

Hi Paula

For some time now a couple of people researching the Cunninghams have had details of 2 generations further back than Edward Cunningham marrying Janet Hill. Another 2 of us (one of them me) have been a bit sceptical about the relationship.

However, now that the OPRs are on line we think we now have sufficient evidence to claim them as ours!!!

What do you think of this?

Our Helen Aitken born 6 Aug 1720 in Kirkliston, who marries John Cunningham born 7 Jan 1715 in Kirkliston, has parents, Thomas Aitken (Aikoun according to the OPR) and Agnus (Agnes) Bishop. One of the witnesses to the christening was Peter Bishop.

Now, there is a Patrick (which is interchangeable with Peter) Bishop b 12 Sep 1686 in Kirkliston and he has, amongst others, a sister Agnes Bishop b 18 Dec 1692 in Kirkliston. Their parents are Elspeth Bell and John Bishop. So it appears that Agnes Bishop’s brother, Patrick/Peter was the witness to Helen Aitken’s christening.

Next, Janet Hill b 18 Feb 1683 in Kirkliston married Edward Cunningham b abt 1680. A Janet Hill (amongst others) is born on that day to Janet Bell and John Hill. Fortunately Archibald Cunningham born 19 Oct 1766 had the good sense to name his 3rd daughter Janet Hill Cunningham after his grandmother, Janet Hill (1683) :D

Next, phew, A Janet (Jennet) Bell (1659) and Elspeth Bell (1666) (amongst others) are children of John Bell of Abercorn. Unfortunately the mother’s name is not shown, but a marriage of John Bell and Elspeth Ramsay shows on 27 Jan 1653 in Abercorn.

The only twist in the tale is that apart from Elspeth Bell being born in Abercorn to John Bell in 1666, there was also an Elspeth Bell born in Abercorn to Thomas Bell in 1669. From the dates of the children’s births, it would appear that John and Thomas are of a similar age and I would suspect they are brothers.

So the Elspeth Bell we have found who marries John Bishop, could be John’s daughter or perhaps his niece or no relation at all, which I doubt. I think Abercorn was too small a place, especially in those days, for there not to be a connection. However we have only found one Janet (Jennet) Bell (1659) whose father is John Bell.

Lastly in the West Lothian MIs we have a John Bell who died 16 Feb 1701, aged 78 and his wife Eliz Ramsay who died 4 Sep 1678 aged 46 and eight children, unnamed. He was a tenant in Halltornsyke. A Hawthornsyke has been found on a current map of the area, beside Abercorn. See http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ Just type in Abercorn Church and you’ll get it. So John was born c 1623 and Elspeth was born c. 1632.

This pair would be our gggggggg grandparents!!! :D

What do you think?

Jean

PS Any one else's observations are more than welcome

PaulaD
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Location: Born in Edinburgh, now living in Essex1

Post by PaulaD » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:16 pm

Hi Jean,

[woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo]

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Is that really 8 x grandparents :?: :shock:

I' m totally gob smacked :D
Will have to digest all this info. Might be some time :!: :!: :!:

Paula
Searching for Barclay Aberdeenshire, Stewart Edinburgh, Brown Edinburgh & Uphall, Finlayson E Lothian, Fairley & Renton E & W Lothian for starters!

Jean Jeanie
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Post by Jean Jeanie » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:24 pm

Hi Paula

Read, digest, make little boxes, draw lines. :wink:

Do all you need to do and let me know what your conclusions are.

Bet wishes
Jean

PaulaD
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:42 pm
Location: Born in Edinburgh, now living in Essex1

Post by PaulaD » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:01 pm

Hi Jean,

Well I've spent most of the last 24 hours going through this and I think that this is 98% certain its our rellies. Its just a shame they don't seem to have used naming pattern but as you say there weren't that many people living in Abercorn back then. Spent most of last night trawling through every name in Abercorn births and marriages. I agree Thomas and John were probably brothers. Too much of a coincidence for them not to be.

Surprised no-one else has commented. Would have been interested in different opinions.
BTW have you noticed births in Abercorn go back to 1585 :wink: What are the chances of going back another generation :!:
Well done for some great detective work.

Paula
Searching for Barclay Aberdeenshire, Stewart Edinburgh, Brown Edinburgh & Uphall, Finlayson E Lothian, Fairley & Renton E & W Lothian for starters!

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:40 am

More work!

If you haven't already done so, you need also to prove some negatives, i.e. that other possible candidates are not your ancestors.

David

Jean Jeanie
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Post by Jean Jeanie » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:52 pm

Hi Paula and David
PaulaD wrote: Well done for some great detective work.
I cannot take the credit for all the detecive work. Most of that was done by others. I have only been trying to verify it.

BTW Janet Bell (1659) has a J? Cunningham as one of the witnesses to her baptism, as does her brother John (1657)

Re David's comments about other possible candidates.

Any ideas?

I wonder if Janet(1683)Hill's OPR or any of her sibling's OPRs would prove or disprove anything.

At his moment I think we can forget about Elspeth Bell(1666) and perhaps prove later if she is John's daughter or niece. If we prove that Janet is John's daughter, then I think that it is all we need to prove the connection to John (1623)

Why did our rellies make it so difficult for us [sigh]

Jean

PaulaD
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Location: Born in Edinburgh, now living in Essex1

Post by PaulaD » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:37 pm

Hi Jean,

Janet 1683 OPR reads as follows

February 16
John Hil and Jonet Bel has a daughter baptized her? named Jonat
witnesses James Hil elder James Hil younger

which doesn't really help at all.
Give me a list of siblings you haven't looked at and I'll start going through them all. Wish I had a scanner - it would make life much easier :?

Paula
Searching for Barclay Aberdeenshire, Stewart Edinburgh, Brown Edinburgh & Uphall, Finlayson E Lothian, Fairley & Renton E & W Lothian for starters!

Jean Jeanie
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Post by Jean Jeanie » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:03 pm

Hi Paula

This could end up costing a fortune :shock:

We could end up getting all these OPRs and finding nothing concrete :cry:

I think, perhaps, the best route if for me/you/us to get the films from our local LDS centres and trawling through them.

I think we need to look at all of Janet Bell and John Hill's kids and all of Janet Hill and Edward Cunningham's kids. Also whilst at it, look at Elspeth Bell and John Bishop's kids and Agnes Bishop and Thomas Aitken's kids.

I will have time mid/end March to do this, after all the rellies aren't going anywhere, are they :lol:

What do you think?

Jean

PaulaD
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:42 pm
Location: Born in Edinburgh, now living in Essex1

Post by PaulaD » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:09 pm

Hi Jean,

Right thats only about 40 kids then :shock:
40 x 6 credits = :?
Ok I see your point :!: . Not sure where LDS is here and have never attempted looking at films. Have a few credits left and have nothing else to look for at the moment so might have a little peek on SP.
Will let you know what I find.

Paula
Searching for Barclay Aberdeenshire, Stewart Edinburgh, Brown Edinburgh & Uphall, Finlayson E Lothian, Fairley & Renton E & W Lothian for starters!

PaulaD
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:42 pm
Location: Born in Edinburgh, now living in Essex1

Post by PaulaD » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:12 pm

Hi Jean,

Couldn't resist it - I've started going through the Hill and Bell kids. On John (1685) page down the bottom I found this :-

July 5 1685
George Law and Elspeth Aikin had a son baptized his name Alexander
Witnesses George and John Hil

There seem to be an awful lot of Hills in Kirkliston :D

Paula
Searching for Barclay Aberdeenshire, Stewart Edinburgh, Brown Edinburgh & Uphall, Finlayson E Lothian, Fairley & Renton E & W Lothian for starters!