A PLEA FROM THE GREAT SOUTHERN LAND.....

[q98]

Through the recent kind efforts of several individuals researching on my behalf, I possess data from the Censuses of 1851, 1861 and 1881, and IGI. Now, my problem:

FACT:

Mary McCREADIE, mother of both
Margaret McCREADIE (b. 13 Nov 1859, Ballantrae d. unknown)
William McCREADIE (b. 7 Aug 1866, Ballantrae d. 04 Aug 1941, Dunedin, NZ)
[As Informant of each birth, Mary signed both Birth Extracts. Her signature is exactly the same on each.]

It must be pointed out that circa 1860, there were two Mary McCREADIEs giving birth in Ballantrae. I know only that at the time of her daughter Margaret’s birth, Mary was described as “Domestic Servant” while at the time of William’s birth, she was described as “Cook”.

THEORY:

If Mary McCREADIE conformed with Scottish patronymic customs, Margaret was named for her grandmother. I have IGI data of a Margaret (DOAK) McCREADIE as a possible mother who, on 5th June 1835 at Girvan, married a James McCREDDIE (sic). In addition, I also possess the Death Extract of a Margaret DUFF, widow of John DUFF, Shepherd. Margaret DUFF died 15 April 1880, aged 41 Years. Her parents were Hugh and Elizabeth (DOAK) McCREADIE (deceased at time of Margaret DUFFs death). The Informant of Margaret DUFFs death was “Margaret DOAK or McCREADIE, Nurse, Present” written in her own handwriting. I am unable to determine if these are the same Margaret McCREADIE.

Located in the 1851 Census of Ballantrae is a James McCREADIE, age 40 and Margaret (DOAK) McCREADIE, age 37, with a daughter Mary who was christened on 25th February 1840 at Ballantrae. This daughter would have been of child bearing age when Margaret McCREADIE was born in 1859. Located in the 1881 Census of Ballantrae, is a Margaret McCREADIE, age 67, born Girvan with her grandchildren Maggie, age 22, and William, age 15. Both Maggie and William are the correct ages to match the birth years of my forebears.

AIM:
To positively identify and locate Mary McCREADIE’s mother, possibly Margaret (DOAK) McCREADIE.

I would be extremely grateful for any and all assistance to resolve this.

[Jack]

Hi Jim,
Some answers - at least i hope there are.
This looks like the parents of Mary McCREADIE born 1840.
The age of Margaret DOAK as 57 yrs on her 1889 DC is well adrift - around 18 years out....
But i can't see her being any other than the Margaret that is at Shellknowe in 1881 as aged 67.
My only problem is - who is son Robert?
==
1877 DC 579. 6 (Ballantrae)
James McCREADIE (66) fisherman, d. 12 MAR 1877 at Ballantrae.
Married to Margaret DOAK.
Parents - John McCREADIE (dcd) thatcher & Mary m/s FERGUSSON (dcd)
Informant - Robert McCREADIE, son, Shorehouse, Stevenston.
--
1889 DC 579. 1 (Ballantrae)
Margaret McCREADIE (57) d. 2 FEB 1889 at Shellknowe.
Widow of James McCREADIE, fisherman.
Parents - Robert DOAK (dcd) hand loom weaver & Mary m/s McCREADIE (dcd).
Informant - Robert McCREADIE, son, Schoolwell Street, Stevenston.
==
I'd a look at the signature of informant Margaret DOAK or McCREADIE on Margaret DUFF's 1880 DC.
I'm as certain as can be it's the same hand that signed wee Mary McCREADIE's 1861 BC. ie grandmother Margaret McCREADIE.

So we can only make a guess that Margaret McCREADIE m/s DOAK could well be related to
Margaret DUFF's mother Elizabeth McCREADIE m/s DOAK.
I'll be very surprised if not - so maybe you've a bit of work to do!
==
And now back to Mary McCREADIE born 1840.
I can't find an "official" marriage for her to Robert JONES - but their children's BCs say they married 2 APR 1869 at West Calder.
Though Robert Jones (20) did marry Isabella Brannan (19) on 1 JUN 1857 at Bathgate West Lothian.
(his parents are given as John Jones, miner & Laura Lloyd - both deceased; the same names as on his DC)
But Isabella then died aged 22 on 5 Dec 1860 at Longridge, W. Lothian.
In 1861 Robert Jones (25) miner, born Wales is staying with his father-in-law James at Longridge.
--
Moving on a few years now - you already have Robert JONES & Mary McCREADIE in this 1881, and here they are in 1901 too.
Then both their DCs.
==
1881 Census Place: West Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0224024 GRO Ref Volume 701 EnumDist 11 Page 24
Dwelling: Blinkbonny
Robert JONES M 46 M (North), Wales Rel: Head Occ: Coal Miner
Mary JONES 42 F Girvan, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Wife
Mary JONES 10 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Maggie JONES 7 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Jessie JONES 5 F W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Daur
John JONES 3 M W Calder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Son
--
1901 census 701 Ed 1 p 5 (West Calder)
29 Clyde Street.
Robert JONES, head, marr, 70, general labourer, b Wales
Mary JONES, wife, marr, 62, ----------------------------b Girvan, AYR
James JONES, son, u/m 19, tar blower labourer, b Haywood, LKS?
Janet JONES, daur, 12, --------------------b West Calder, Edinburgh.
==
1902 DC 701. 72 (West Calder)
Mary JONES (64) d. 3 OCT 1902 at 29 Clyde Street, West Calder.
Married to Robert JONES, labourer.
Parents - James McCRADIE (dcd) fisherman & Margaret m/s DOAK (dcd)
Informant - James JONES, son.
-
1909 DC 701. 19 (West Calder)
Robert JONES (71) labourer, d. 14 FEB 1909 at Lodge House, Union St, West Calder.
Widower of Mary McCRADIE.
Parents - John JONES (dcd) miner & Laura LLOYD (dcd)
Informant - James JONES, son, Clyde St, West Calder.
==
Jack

[q98]

Ah Jack, you're a wee stoater and I concur - wha is this Robert? Nae doot ANITHER yin o' they McCREADIEs tae coz me mair sleepless nichts!! Ach weel, them's the joys o' jeanealigy eh?

Now to find the time and grey-matter to put the jigsaw into place. Robert no doubt is most probably brother to Mary! Occasionally, I wish I'd never started this but then what else would keep me so busy that my wife thinks I'm having an internet affair - HA! "Hen, ah huvnae the time fur an internet affair. Mah research keeps me fur too bizy!".

Re Margaret DUFFs DC where Margaret McCREADIE is described as "Nurse". I'm inclined to believe a more appropriate modern description would be "Carer", what do you think? AND what do you believe their relationship was; Aunt and Neice, etc?

Thanks again Jack. This will probably take me a wee while to nut out.

Best wishes and regards from God's back yard.

Jim

[Jack]

Hi Jim,
It might be useful to do an in depth study of the McCREADIEs & DOAKs
plus their inter-related families in the Ballantrae / Girvan area.
This to get a much better understanding of them; they seem quite numerous.
But once you start they'll probably make much more sense as you "get to know them".
--
I can only guess (possibly very wrongly) on who the informant son Robert is.
Could he be the 5yr old Thomas in 1841?
But that the name should've been Robert - the enumerator getting it wrong?
Or Thomas changed his name to Robert? That seems rather doubtful though.
There is a suitably aged 15yr old *Robert McCREADIE in 1851 - please see below,
but I can't see him in Ayrshire 1861 - posssibly elsewhere?
I don't know if this is the right Robert - he's the only one i can see in 1851 that might be.
I should mention that there doesn't appear to be a suitable Thomas aged about 15yrs in 1851.
--
Later - I'd a look at the LDS BIVRI; there is a *Robert
So it does appear that Thomas was an error in 1841.
Parents of all the children below are James McCREDIE & Margaret DOAK
-
*Robert MCCREDIE, Birth: 18 Oct 1835 Christening: 27 Nov 1835 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
Mathew MCREDIE, Birth: 2 Nov 1837 Christening: 3 Nov 1837 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
Mary MCCREDIE, Birth: 28 Jan 1840 Christening: 25 Feb 1840 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
Margaret MCCREDIE, Birth: 9 May 1842 Christening: 22 May 1842 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
David MCCREDIE, Birth: 15 Nov 1844 Christening: 8 Dec 1844 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
James MCCREDIE, Birth: 5 Dec 1846 Christening: 20 Dec 1846 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
James Meikle MCCREDIE, Birth: 23 Dec 1847 Christening: 6 Feb 1848 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
Jean MCCREDIE, Birth: 1 Feb 1851 Christening: 9 Mar 1851 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
--
In Stevenston 1881 there is a Robert McCREADIE aged 40, salmon fisher, born Ballantrae.
(details at bottom of this page)
As you say, Robert the informant would need to be the brother of Mary born 1840.
==
> 1841 census 579 Place: Ballantrae -Ayrshire Enumeration District: 9 Folio: 9 Page: 19
> Address: Village
> MCCREDIE James M 25 Fisherman Ayrshire
> MCCREDIE Margt F 25 Ayrshire
> --------- Thomas M 5 Ayrshire (Surname not enumerated) [but shd be *Robert?]
> --------------Mary F 1 Ayrshire (Surname not enumerated) [GG-GM?]
--
>1851 census 579 (478) Ed 9 p 14 (Ballantrae)
>Main Street or Girvan Road.
>James McCREADIE, head, marr, 40, Fisher, b Ballantrae, AYR
>Margaret McCREADIE, wife, marr, 37, Fisher's wife, b Girvan, AYR
>Mary McCREADIE, daur, 11, Scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR [GG-GM?]
>Margaret McCREADIE, daur, 8, Scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
>David McCREADIE, son, 6, ----------------b Ballantrae, AYR
>James McCREADIE, son, 4, ---------------b Ballantrae, AYR
>Jean McCREADIE, daur, 3 mos, ---------b Ballantrae, AYR
[notice there is no son Robert aged abt 15 with the family]
==
1851 census 579 (478) Ed 1 p 6 (Ballantrae)
Carrerie.
Mathew RICHMOND, head, 39, Farmer of 367 acres, b Mauchline, AYR
Mary CLARK, servant, 23, House Keeper, b Girvan, AYR
Jean HARPER, servant, 23, Dairy Maid, b New Cumnock, AYR
Isabella MOORE, servant, 19, Dairy Maid assst, b Stoneykirk, WIG
John MALCOLM, servant, 26, Farm Labourer, b Glenluce, WIG
Robert CUNNINGHAM, servant, 16, Farm Labourer, b Ballantrae, AYR
*Robert McCREADIE, servant, 15, Errand boy, b Balllantrae, AYR
==
> Re Margaret DUFFs DC where Margaret McCREADIE is described as "Nurse".
> I'm inclined to believe a more appropriate modern description would be "Carer", what do you think?
> AND what do you believe their relationship was; Aunt and Neice, etc?

Ans - Not too sure. Maybe Nurse, as in Margaret McCreadie was nursing Margaret Duff? Was it a long illness?
As for relationship - i'd hesitate to guess! Hence the need for an in depth study.
If Margaret Doak's signature is anything to go by she seems a quite well educated lady,
and you'd have thought that she would know how Margaret Duff was related to her.
(ie if she was - but you do feel sure they connect up somehow)
On the face of things you'd expect Aunt & Niece...
Hopefully all will be revealed because -
The DCs of Margaret DUFF's parents Hugh McCREADIE & Elizabeth DOAK should be in the Statutory Records.
(they are both living in 1861 - see censuses below)
===============
HUGH MCCREDIE
ELIZABETH DOACK
Marriage: 19 JUN 1836 Girvan, Ayr, Scotland

JOHN McCREADY - Birth: 12 Oct 1836; Christening: 13 Nov 1836 ;Girvan, Ayrshire, Scotland
MARGARET McCREDIE - Birth: 9 Jun 1839; Christening: 11 Aug 1839 Girvan, Ayrshire [who married John DUFF 1862?]
HUGH McCREDIE - Birth: 2 Feb 1842; Christening: 6 Mar 1842 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
ELIZABETH McCREDIE - Birth: 3 Oct 1848; Christening: 17 Nov 1848 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
GRACE McCREDIE - Birth: 5 Jan 1851; Christening: 9 Mar 1851 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
MARY MCCREDIE - Birth: 3 Mar 1853; Christening: 3 Apr 1853 Ballantrae, Ayrshire, Scotland
ELISABETH MCCREDIE - Birth: 04 JUN 1855 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
DAVID MCCREDIE - Birth: 15 NOV 1857 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
-
1851 census 579 (478) Ed 9 pp 9-10 (Ballantrae)
Main Street or Girvan Road.
Hugh McCREADIE, head, 39, Joiner emp. 4 men, b Ballantrae, AYR
Elizabeth McCREADIE, wife, 35, Joiner's wife, b Girvan, AYR [m/s DOAK]
John McCREADIE, son, 14, at school, b Girvan, AYR
Margaret McCREADIE, daur, 11, at school, b Girvan, AYR [who married John DUFF 1862?]
Hugh McCREADIE, son, 9, at school, b Ballantrae, AYR
Grace McCREADIE, daur, 2mos, ------b Ballantrae, AYR
Jean DOAK, niece, 18, Flowerer, b Girvan, AYR
John McCREADIE, nephew, 8, at school, b ?Glasgow?,AYR
William DUFF, visitor, 26, Slater, b Irvine, AYR
Mathew HUGHES, lodger, 21, Joiner, b Ireland
Thomas LOGIE, lodger, 19, Joiners ap, b Ballantrae, AYR
James LOGIE, lodger, 16, Joiners ap, b Ballantrae, AYR
Thomas McEWAN, lodger, 17, Joiners ap, b Colmonell, AYR
Mary McKISSOCK, servant, 13, House servant, b Glasgow, LKS
--
1861 census 579 Ed 1 p 13 (Ballantrae)
Main Street.
Hugh McCREADIE, head, 50, Joiner emp 1 man, b Ballantrae, AYR
Elizabeth McCREADIE, wife, 48, -----------------------b Girvan, AYR [m/s DOAK]
Hugh McCREADIE, son, 20, Joiner (j/man), b Ballantrae, AYR
Mary McCREADIE, daur, 9, scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
David McCREADIE, son, 4, -----------b Ballantrae, AYR
Agnes DUNLOP, servant, 15, Domestic servant, b Ballantrae, AYR
--
1861 census 579 Ed 1 p 16 (Ballantrae)
Main Street.
Margaret McCREADIE, head, 22, Grocer, b Girvan, AYR [who married John DUFF 1862?]
Grace McCREADIE, sister, 10, scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
=======
Could this *John & *Mary be the parents of James McCREADIE who died 1877?
Certainly got possibilities - and their DCs will be in the Statutory records as they were still living in 1861.

1851 census 579 (478) Ed 9 p 34 (Ballantrae)
Foreland.
*John McCREADIE, head, marr, 65, Fisher & Thatcher, b Ballantrae, AYR
*Mary McCREADIE, wife, marr, 73, --------------------------b Ballantrae, AYR
William McCREADIE, son, 33, Fisher, b Ballantrae, AYR
William McCREADIE, gr-son, 20, Fisher, b Ballantrae, AYR

next door - p 35 Foreland
[this is the second McCreadie family mentioned over on your other post]
John McCREADIE, head, marr, 46, Fisher, b Ballantrae, AYR
Isabella WELSH, wife, marr, 36, Fisherman's wife, b Girvan, AYR
Anthony WELSH, son, 6, -------------------b Ballantrae, AYR
John WELSH, son, 2, ---------------------b Ballantrae, AYR
Mary WELSH, daur, 1, -----------------b Ballantrae, AYR

next door again - p35 Foreland
Hugh McCREADIE, head, marr, 42, Fisherman, b Ballantrae, AYR
Helen McCREADIE, wife, marr, 38, ---------------b Girvan, AYR
Hugh McCREADIE, son, 11, scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
William McCREADIE, son, 8, not at school, b Ballantrae, AYR
Thomas McCREADIE, son, 5, not at school, b Ballantrae, AYR
James McCREADIE, son, 3, -------------------b Ballantrae, AYR
David McCREADIE, son, 6mos, -------------b Ballantrae, AYR
Helen McCREADIE, mother, widow, 74, Fisher's widow, b Wigtonshire
[another Hugh McCreadie of similar age, same birthplace - married to Helen m/s McCreadie]
-------
1861 census 579 Ed 1 p 20 (Ballantrae)
Foreland.
*John McCREADIE, head, marr, 76, Thatcher, b Ballantrae, AYR
*Mary McCREADIE, wife, marr, 88, House keeper, b Ballantrae, AYR
William McCREADIE, son, marr, 30, Fisherman, b Ballantrae, AYR
Isabella McCREADIE, wife, marr, 34, Cotton weaver, b Girvan, AYR
John McCREADIE, son, 12, Pirn winder, b Ballantrae, AYR
Mary McCREADIE, daur, 11, scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
Alexander McCREADIE, son, 6, scholar, b Ballantrae, AYR
William McCREADIE, son, 2, -------------b Ballantrae, AYR
Jane EAGLISHAM, niece, 15, ------------b Ballantrae, AYR
next door on pp 20-21
#Hugh McCREADIE, head, marr, 51, Weaver & Fisherman, b Ballantrae, AYR
Helen McCREADIE, wife, marr, 48, -----------------------b Girvan, AYR
William McCREADIE, son, 18, Fisherman, b Ballantrae, AYR
Helen McCREADIE, daur, 5, scholar, b Ballantrae
[again this is the other Hugh McCreadie & Helen m/s McCreadie]

#Much later...Hugh McCREADIE (82) d. 28 Aug 1890.
Wife Helen m/s McCREADIE.
Parents - John McCREADIE, thatcher & Mary FERGUSON.
(same parents as John who'd married Margaret Doak)
Not sure when father John the thatcher died, but wife Mary FERGUSON [88] d. 12 Apr 1861.
Parents - David FERGUSON & Margaret m/s McCREDDIE.
Yep, yet another maiden surname "McCREADIE"....
==========================================
Is this below the informant son Robert? Should be easily enough checked by looking at his 1869 MC.
He's the only one in Stevenston that might fit - so i hope it is him!
Unless he moved about a lot because of his occupation he seems to be in Ballantrae in 1877....
According to children's birthplaces anyway.
But Robert gives Stevenston as his address on his father's 1877 DC....
--
ROBERT MCCREADIE
JESSIE MCFADZEAN
Marriage: 19 NOV 1869 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
some children--
MARGARET MCCREADIE - Birth: 05 JAN 1870 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
JANET MCCREADIE - Birth: 22 MAR 1872 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
DAVID MCCREADIE Birth: 19 SEP 1873 Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland
MARY ~ 1875, Ballantrae
ROBERT ~ 1877, Ballantrae
JANE ~ 1880, Ballantrae
--
1881 Census Place: Stevenston, Ayr, Scotland
Dwelling: Fishers Cottage
Source: FHL Film 0203609 GRO Ref Volume 615 EnumDist 5 Page 13
Robert MC CREADIE M 40 M Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Salmon Fisher
Jessie MC CREADIE M 31 F Kirkcowan, Wigtown, Scotland Rel: Wife
Maggie MC CREADIE 11 F Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Jessie MC CREADIE 9 F Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
David MC CREADIE 7 M Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
Mary MC CREADIE 5 F Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur
Robert MC CREADIE 3 M Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Son
Jane MC CREADIE 8mo F Ballantrae, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Daur
[the family, with more children, are still in Stevenston 1901]
====
Jack