A Missing Relationship?

[Jamboesque]

Hi Folks.

I’m in a bit of a quandary in that I can’t figure out what it going on here.

Margaret (Jolly) Reid (1812 – 1884) had three boys Robert 1836, Hugh 1838 and Alexander 1840. In her will and testament it is revealed that all the boys pre-deceased her. I’m certain that Alex went to London and was a successful shopkeeper/grocer as did Hugh (I think) however they don’t really concern us here.

In her will (1882) she mentions the son of her son Robert, John Forbes commonly known as John Reid a corporal in the 93rd Regiment of Foot. In the Census of 1871 Margaret Reid (59) is staying in Laurencekirk with her grandson John Reid (10) a scholar. The intriguing part is in the where born section, John’s entry seems to have been initially Forfarshire, Brechin but this has been scored out and Aberdeen, Woodside entered. There is no birth record on SP for John Reid/Forbes for 1861 in Aberdeen but there is a John Forbes (4 Nov 1861) born in Brechin to John & Isobel Forbes.

John is the person that registers his ‘grandmothers’ death in 1884

Another intriguing thing is that Robert’s entry in the 1851 Census when he was 14 is a scholar but his younger brother Hugh aged 12 is a farmer’s son employed at home. So was Robert being given a ‘special’ education? After this entry Robert disappears of the SP radar (as far as can tell) no Marriage, Death or Census record.

So I have few questions.

1. What could the link be between Robert & either John Forbes and/or his parents John & Isabel? Could there be a legal (adoption) document and where do I research for it?

2. What happened to Robert? If he wasn’t in Scotland why take on an adopted son (and if it was an adoption why the name dubiety in the Will & Testament) and leave him with his Grandmother?

3. Where do I start researching John's service in the 93rd Foot (The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise) Regiment?

I apologise for a somewhat detailed post but as you can see I've done a reasonable amount of research and am now stuck as to where to go next.........


Jack

[DavidWW]

.....much snipped.........
3. Where do I start researching John's service in the 93rd Foot (The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise) Regiment?


Jack

The military records at The National Archives at Kew.

It's unlikely that there'll be anything online referring to his service, - nothing obvious pops up from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp , so that it's a case of a visit to Kew, or using the services of a specialist military records researcher.

Given that you have his date of birth and the name of the regiment it shouldn't take long to see if there are any records, - as long as he wasn't killed during his service with the A&SH, in which case his papers would probably have been destroyed (no need to pay a pension, so why retaims the papers ).

In the latter case, there's an outside chance that the regimental museum at Stirling Castle might have some mention, but they are known to have no lists of men who served in the regiment.

David

[Jack]

Hi Jack,
Haven't dug too deeply but seems that,
John REID isn't the John FORBES born 14 Nov 1861.
--
JOHN FORBES
ISABEL MORRISON
Marriage: 13 MAY 1857 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
~some children~
JAMES FORBES - Birth: 13 JUL 1857 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
ELISABETH ROSS FORBES - Birth: 27 APR 1859 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
JOHN MORRISON FORBES - Birth: 04 NOV 1861 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
CHARLES REA FORBES - Birth: 30 APR 1864 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
MAGGIE STOTT FORBES - Birth: 03 JUN 1867 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
ISABEL MACK FORBES - Birth: 19 JAN 1871 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
SUSAN WATSON FORBES - Birth: 26 SEP 1873 Brechin, Angus, Scotland
--
1871 census 275-1 Ed 12 p 7 (Brechin)
101 River Street.
John FORBES, head, marr, 36, linen weaver, b Brechin, Forfarshire
Isabella FORBES, wife, marr, 33, -----------------b Brechin, Forfarshire
James FORBES, son, 13, printer compositor, b Brechin, Forfarshire
Elisabeth FORBES, daur, 11, scholar, b Brechin, Forfarshire
John FORBES, son, 9, scholar, b Brechin, Forfarshire
Charles FORBES, son, 6, scholar, b Brechin, Forfarshire
Maggie FORBES, daur, 3, ----------b Brechin, Forfarshire
Isabel FORBES, daur, 2 mos, ---b Brechin, Forfarshire
--
1881 Census Place: Brechin, Forfar, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203477 GRO Ref Volume 275 EnumDist 12 Page 27
Dwelling: River Street 89
John FORBES M 46 M Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Flax Mill Worker
Isabella FORBES M 43 F Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Wife
John FORBES U 19 M Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Linen Factory Worker Lapper
Charles FORBES 16 M Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Pranter Compsitor
Maggie FORBES 13 F Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Flax Mill Worker
Isabella FORBES 10 F Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Susan FORBES 7 F Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Gordon FORBES 5 M Brechin, Forfar, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Scholar
--
Jack

[Susan]

Hello Jack

I think I can help you with this one a bit.

When you mentioned John Reid or Forbes that rang a few bells - I knew I'd come across that combination somewhere. I cannot tell you more about Robert Reid but I have some info on John Forbes or Reid.

My gg uncle Hugh Bruce's second wife was Mary Watson Watt, she was the widow of John Forbes Reid.

John married Mary Watson Watt in Laurencekirk in 1885 when he was 25 - using the name John Forbes Reid, his occupation given as clerk. His birth was registered as John Forbes - reputed father Robert Reid - mother Mary Forbes. He was born in Aberdeen on 24 April 1860.

They went to Queensland, Australia - not sure when and had 2 sons, John and Wesley in 1889 & 1890 out there. Mary was widowed in Australia and returned home. She married my gg uncle in 1893 and they went on to have eight children to add to Mary's two plus the seven children my gg uncle had by his first wife.

I was told by someone whose uncle married a descendant of one of John's sons that John was murdered in Australia. But I have not done any further research on that.

Hope this helps you.

Susan.

[Jamboesque]

Thanks folks,

Things are bit more clearer now,

David,

Would I be right in thinking that the LDS have the 'Regimental Description and Succession Books (W. O. 25) on film? If so in theory if I go up to the local LDS FHC (in my case Edinburgh) I can order it and view it there. It must be cheaper than to go down to Kew. At least I now that he survived his service period.

Jack,

Thanks for the quick reply. It's annoying when you miss a trick like looking forward in time through Census reports. I think I was convinced he was the man. I wonder why the enumerator initially wrote Forfarshire, Brechin?

Susan,

Well, that was a surprise. I got the Marriage Cert of SP and it fits. They got married about 1 year after his grandmothers death, but probably with a nice legacy of £400 (Aprox £186,000 in todays terms using an average income calculation) which would have been a nice starter for their new life in Australia, but he must have talked a 'good game' because he was not supposed to get the money until he was 30. I will in time get round to investigating his life down under, but maybe not just now....

Thanks again.

Jack

[Susan]

Jack

Glad to be of some help. Just a wee amendment to my earlier post - I was writing from memory whilst having a teabreak at work and on checking my info when I got home I noticed I gave you wrong name for one of John's sons. They should have been Robert John Reid and Wesley Hugh Reid. Robert married Mary Hunter Milne in 1918 and I know they had at least one daughter born c1919. John's widow Mary married my ggg uncle (not gg uncle as I said earlier) and she lived to be 85 dying in 1947.

Susan.

[DavidWW]

David,

Would I be right in thinking that the LDS have the 'Regimental Description and Succession Books (W. O. 25) on film? If so in theory if I go up to the local LDS FHC (in my case Edinburgh) I can order it and view it there. It must be cheaper than to go down to Kew. At least I now that he survived his service period.

....snipped ......................

Jack

I've no idea , - what does the LDS catalogue say ?

Given the extent of the WO25 series of records, the problem could be identifying jujst which one of many, many microfilms is the one that you need.

I'm interested to know how this develops.

David

David