Ploughman's path.

[Mairi]

Once upon a time, 1820 to be exact, a Henry Cuthbertson was born at Dalmeny, Linlithgowshire, to Henry Culbertson and Ann Morris/Morrice/Morice and had siblings, William (b. 1823) and Janet (b. 1825).
Henry, as farm servant, ploughed furrows and much else besides in West Lothian. By 1841 he was living in Kirknewton with father Henry, a relative namely Margaret Cuthbertson, her illegitimate son, Henry, and two visitors, George and Elizabeth, so far unidentified but with the surname Cuthbertson.
Marriage to Margaret Ross (b. 1824) in 1844 was followed by the births of Henry (1845), Agnes (1847) and Anne (1850).
Margaret Ross may have gone to pastures new in Scotland or died.
Ploughman Henry met Margaret Paris ( b. 1824) and they had two lawful daughters, according to records, Margaret (b. 1853) and Elizabeth (b. 1856) at Kirknewton.
Poor Henry died at Dalmeny in 1861 aged 40. Margaret (presumably Paris) is named as his wife. On her death certificate in 1910 she is listed as widow of 1) Henry Cuthbertson and 2) Alexander Irvine whom she married in 1876.
Her daughters Margaret and Elizabeth later move, with two of Henry's first brood, to live in South Leith.

Queries: Could Margaret Paris haved named herself as wife/widow?
(There is no evidence of marriage, ie certificate in OPRs or SRs as far as I can see.)
Could Margaret and Elizabeth be Henry's wild oats despite 'lawful daughter' designations?
What was the reason behind church porch ceremonies that I
heard mentioned during a broadcast?

Tangled relationships were obviously the everyday story of these country folk. I am cross-eyed by the movements of the Cuthbertsons and their kin!
Mairi.

[LesleyB]

Hi Mairi
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

Without looking on IGI or SP etc., a few questions

By 1841 he was living in Kirknewton with father Henry, a relative namely Margaret Cuthbertson, her illegitimate son, Henry, and two visitors, George and Elizabeth, so far unidentified but with the surname Cuthbertson.

As the 1841 census does not give relationships, you must have worked these relationships out from other sources?

Margaret Ross may have gone to pastures new in Scotland or died.

Have you looked into MI sources or OPR deaths for the area in which they lived? If not, that might be worth doing.

Poor Henry died at Dalmeny in 1861 aged 40. Margaret (presumably Paris) is named as his wife

The 1861 death entry should, I think, give her surname.

Queries: Could Margaret Paris haved named herself as wife/widow?

Fairly easily, I reckon.

Could Margaret and Elizabeth be Henry's wild oats despite 'lawful daughter' designations?

Possibly, I think, as the Kirk Sessions had rather lost their vice-like grip by then. You'd really need to check the Kirk Session records for the area to guage how obsessed or "on the ball" they were!

Best wishes
Lesley

[nelmit]

Hello, a quick search of the IGI gives these children as you've described -

1. MARGARET CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 20 FEB 1853 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

2. ELIZABETH CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 APR 1856 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

3. HENRY CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 27 APR 1845 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

4. AGNES CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 OCT 1847 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

5. ANNE CUTHBERTSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 NOV 1850 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

Here is the marriage of Henry to Margaret Ross -

HENRY CUTHBERTSON
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET ROSS Family
Marriage: 22 DEC 1854 Kirknewton And East Calder, Midlothian, Scotland

I wonder if you have two different Henrys here. Definitely something odd.

What does Elizabeth's birth entry say about her parents names and date of marriage?

Kind regards,
Annette M

[Mairi]

Thank you for your warm welcome and quick responses to my queries, Lesley and nelmit.

Lesley, I have been able to verify relationships -father of Henry ('Dalmeny Henry' I call him) was Henry Culbertson, and little Henry who was illegitimate son of Margaret (b.1816) and a John Walker, a shepherd. This little Henry became known as Henry Walker Cuthbertson.
Elizabeth and her sister Margaret are listed on birth certificates as daughters of Henry and Margaret Paris.
I bought the MI index for West Lothian and the one for South-West Midlothian but cannot find an inscription. Presumably they were too poor to have a gravestone.
(Dalmeny) Henry's death certificate just gives 'Margaret Cuthbertson' as his wife----no maiden surname given.
A Margaret Cuthbertson, with other name, Ross, died in 1862 in Kilmaurs (SR) but she was married to an innkeeper, John and 'Ross' was her maiden surname.
OPR give no deaths.


Unfortunately the Search Return AND the heading on the image give the marriage of Henry and Margaret Ross as 1854 but the actual image states the date clearly-----1844.

So many red herrings tracking this line but as they are ferm folk not fishermen perhaps I should say I have been through the mill.
Muddled Mairi

[Jack]

Hi Mairi,
I could only guess that Margaret ROSS & Margaret PARIS are the one & same?
If not, then Margaret Ross probably died between 21 Nov 1850 - 30 Mar 1851.
What does it say for Margaret's parents on her 1876 MC to Alexander IRVINE?
And on her 1910 DC?
You most likely already have all this.
--
There is this birth in the IGI - are these the parents?
MARGARET PARIS - Birth: 10 APR 1824 Mid Calder, Midlothian, Scotland
Parents: JAMES PARIS & AGNES ANTHONY
It might be helpful to find a Margaret Ross and a Margaret Paris with parents in the 1841 census.
But 15yr old girls are often living/working away from home.
--
1851 census 690 Ed 1 p 13 (Kirknewton / East Calder)
Kirknewton Village.
Henry CUTHBERTSON, head, marr, 30, Ag. Lab., b Kirkliston, WLN
Margaret CUTHBERTSON, wife, marr, 25, -------b Mid Calder, MLN
Henry CUTHBERTSON, son, 5, scholar, b Kirknewton, MLN
Agnes CUTHBERTSON, daur, 3, --------b Kirknewton, MLN
Anne CUTHBERTSON, daur, 5 mos,----b Kirknewton, MLN
--
1861 census 665 Ed 1 p 8 (Dalmeny)
Carlowrie? W.
Henry CUTHBERTSON, head, marr, 40, Ploughman, b Dalmeny, Linlithgow
Margaret CUTHBERTSON, wife, marr, 35, -----------b Mid Calder, Edin.
Henry CUTHBERTSON, son, 15, Farm Servant, b Kirknewton, Edin.
Agnes CUTHBERTSON, daur, 13, Scholar, b Kirknewton, Edin.
Annie CUTHBERTSON, daur, 9, Scholar, b Kirknewton, Edin.
Margaret CUTHBERTSON, daur, 7, Scholar, b Kirknewton, Edin.
Elizabeth CUTHBERTSON, daur, 4, ----------b Kirknewton, Edin.
--
1871 census 679 Ed 4 p 10 (Cramond)
Shore Street
Alexander IRVINE, head, 44, Pier Porter, b Cramond, MLN [widower?]
John George IRVINE, son, 5, Scholar, b Cramond, MLN
George Borthwick IRVINE, 2, son, -----b Cramond, MLN
Margaret CUTHBERTSON, 45, House Keeper, b Midcalder, MLN [widow?]
--
1881 Census Place: Cramond, Edinburgh, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0223986 GRO Ref Volume 679 EnumDist 5 Page 2
Dwelling: 30 And 31 Cramond
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Alexander IRVINE M 54 M Cramond, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Gen Lab
Margaret IRVINE M 56 F Midcalder, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Wife
--
A fair chance that the Margaret CUTHBERTSON with the family in 1841,
and here in 1851, might be the above Henry's older sister? same birthplace anyway.
1851 census 690 Ed 4 p 10 (Kirknewton / East Calder)
The Loggie?
Margaret CUTHBERTSON, head, u/m, 35, Ag. Lab, b Kirliston, WLN
Henry CUTHBERTSON, illegt. son, 11, scholar, b Kirknewton, MLN
--
Jack

[LesleyB]

Hi Mairi
Not sure what you mean by "no deaths" - I take it you mean you've checked the OPR and there is nothing mentioned?

690. KIRKNEWTON AND EAST CALDER*
690/1 Kirknewton
B 1642-1764 M 1642-1756 D 1642-1739
690/2 East Calder
B 1642-1764 M 1704-1761 D 1708-47
690/3 Kirknewton and East Calder
B 1766-1819 M 1773-1819 D -
690/4 B 1820-54 M 1816-54 D 1829-54

I'm making assumptions here... she may have died in a different parish! And may not be mentioned anyway.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Mairi]

Thank you very much, Jack, for your thoughts and all the census information so clearly presented. It was really kind of you to do that work.

The Dalmeny census of 1861 and the Cramond ones of 1871 and 1881 I had not searched, so facts you presented filled in gaps of my knowledge.
For example the marriage and death certificates of Margaret (Paris) Cuthbertson had indicated life in Cramond but not that she obviously looked after a young family before marrying the widower father, Alexander Irvine. (She lived in a cottage there and like all the Cuthbertsons, according to family history, thought nothing of walking into Edinburgh from there as well as to Dalmeny, presumably through the Dalmeny estate. Kirknewton to Edinburgh and back was a trek done by other members regularly.)

I had already established, from certificates, that Margaret (Paris) Cuthbertson was the daughter of James Paris and Agnes Anthony of Mid-Calder.

Margaret (Ross) Cuthbertson was definitely a separate entity. Months ago I traced her, aged seventeen, to a cotton mill in Blackburn, working beside her brother Walter. Cross references have just revealed her parents--James Ross and Jane Muirhead of Livingstone.

The census lists 1851-1881 appear to show a seemless history of (Dalmeny)Henry Cuthbertson and Margaret but Margaret Ross would be the wife featured in 1851 and Margaret Paris in 1861!

The identical Christian names and birth years together with the false heading of the marriage certificate in the Search Return led me on a goose chase a while ago. Still those trials and the learning of the social history are what make this research so interesting!

Lesley, when I said 'no deaths' I meant OPR deaths are not on-line. Like Jack I think first wife, Margaret Ross, died between 1850 and 1852. By 1853 second 'wife' Margaret Paris had produced her first daughter.

Thank you very much for your OPR references. Being virtually housebound I have to do my research on-line and via family documents. Do you think I could e-mail a request for a 'look-up' in that period 1850-1853 to a library somewhere in West Lothian which might have copies on film?
Mairi.

[Jack]

Hi Mairi,
Very pleased to hear you've found Margaret & brother Walter ROSS together in 1841.
I'm back to guessing again!
Possibly it wasn't Margaret ROSS with Henry in 1851?,
And that it was Margaret PARIS?
Only for the reason that Margaret ROSS was born in Livingston,
and the Margaret on the censuses from 1851 onwards says born Mid Calder.
Would that make sense?
--
MARGARET SMITH ROSS - Christ: 04 JUL 1824 Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
MARGARET PARIS - Birth: 10 APR 1824 Mid Calder, Midlothian, Scotland
--
Jack

[LesleyB]

Hi Mairi

Do you think I could e-mail a request for a 'look-up' in that period 1850-1853 to a library somewhere in West Lothian which might have copies on film?

The OPR films would be available to look up in a number of places in Edinburgh, some for no charge, but that is not a great deal of help if you are housebound. Are you perhaps a member of a local Family History Society? They might do a look up. Or there is there any kind friend you could bribe to have a look for you?

Certainly, as you suggest, trying a local library might be worth a shot - especially as your time frame is quite short. Try a browse in the libraries and soceties links at the top of the page here - there may be something useful there.

Otherwise, it may be that someone on here who has family to look up in the same area might manage to check it for you, but it may be a bit hit or miss if anyone has research interests in the same parish.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Mairi]

Thank you Jack. Yes, you are quite right, it would be Margaret Paris in the 1851 census.

Lesley, I telephoned staff at East Calder Library but they did not have relevant film. Now I will contact the Local History Library at Blackburn as listed above. Many thanks for the pointers!
You would think we would gain brain cells doing this research but I think I lose them!
Mairi