Different mother's name on certificates

Brenda · Post by **Brenda** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:58 am

Hi everyone,

I'm really confused and hope that someone can help.

I have a marriage certificate for John McCracken's 2nd marriage to Elizabeth Gibbon , June 5th 1874 , which gives his age as 30 and his parents as John McCracken [ master baker] dec & Janet McCreadie dec.John was a widower at the time of this marrage.

I have just viewed his !st marriage to Agnes Miller Sept 22nd 1865 on Scotland's People which gives his age as 28 and his mother's name as Agnes McCreadie.

Various other info leads to him being born abt 1835 in Colmonnell, Ayrshire
I'm sure it's the same family but can't work out the difference in age and the discrepancy with his mother's christian name.

Any suggestions?

Thank you

Brenda

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:08 am

Hi Brenda,

Is it possible that his mother died when he was young, so he may not have known her name for certain?

Nina

Brenda · Post by **Brenda** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:34 am

Hi Nina

I just don't know what to think anymore

Janet McCracken widow of John, [Master baker], died Dec 27th 1873 at 22 Stockwell Street, Glasgow, [ John's residence on the M/C to Elizabeth ]

Info given to Registrar by son , John.

But why Agnes on his first M/C?

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:00 am

Hmmm, a couple of other reasons might be that he was caught up in the excitement of the day and botched his mother's name as a result, or did he give a sister's name, grandmother's name? Or when he married Agnes, the registrar may have asked him the name of his mother after getting the father's name by just saying "Wife?" So he says HIS wife's name...

Or the registrar may have had a brain burp and wrote Agnes due to the new wife's name being Agnes and he just wasn't thinking....oh lots of reasons.

I think if you are pretty sure it is his marriage (maybe verify it by an address on the certificate) I wouldn't worry about it too much. Mistakes were made. Now outright LIES, they are another tale...I have at least one of them!

Nina

heymarky · Post by **heymarky** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:39 am

I vaguely remember finding cases where a first name was given on one certificate, and a middle name on another...

but I think I like the 'he was nervous and gave his own wife's first name' theory better.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:42 am

ninatoo wrote:Hmmm, a couple of other reasons might be that he was caught up in the excitement of the day and botched his mother's name as a result, or did he give a sister's name, grandmother's name? Or when he married Agnes, the registrar may have asked him the name of his mother after getting the father's name by just saying "Wife?" So he says HIS wife's name... Or the registrar may have had a brain burp and wrote Agnes due to the new wife's name being Agnes and he just wasn't thinking....oh lots of reasons.

I think if you are pretty sure it is his marriage (maybe verify it by an address on the certificate) I wouldn't worry about it too much. Mistakes were made. Now outright LIES, they are another tale...I have at least one of them!

Nina

Excellent summary of the possibilities, to which has to be added another.

For this date, the marriage had to be conducted by a minister, - marriages in a registrar's office only became possible much later.

For a birth or a death the informant presented themselves at the registrar's office and the entry in the Register Book was made there and then, in their presence.

Not for a marriage, - on presenting the registrar with a certificate of proclamation of banns, the couple were given a Marriage Schedule. According to the laid down procedures this schedule was supposed to be filled out by the registrar, leaving the minister to add his details and sign, and the couple to sign after the actual ceremony had been performed (remember the couple disappearing for few minutes before they came back down the aisle

).

Traditionally it was then the best man's duty to return the schedule to the registrar, and pay the fee, that being a present from him to the couple. Three days were allowed for this to be done (although I'd assume that in the case of a marriage taking place on 30th December, it would be understood that if the best man didn't/couldn't make it in to the registrar's office on the 31st, he couldn't be there until it re-opened on the 3rd Janaury!)

The registrar had to copy, or, to use the guid auld Scots word, engross the details from the Marriage Schedule into the Register Book of Marriages, - that's why you see " (signed) " before their names, because those aren't their actual signatures. The original Marriage Schedules still exist but are closed to the public, except for most exceptional situations, e.g. the only way, for legal reasons, to prove someone's signature.

Obviously, such an additional step in the process means another possibility for error, - registrars were ordinary human beings and made mistakes.

Hands up anyone who has never made a mistake when transcribing from a Scottish register entry

- 2 per page for marriages, and 3 per page for births and deaths - the error being that, for some reason, you are temporarily distracted, and when you get back to the trancribing you return to the wrong image on the page, - most often, in my experience, because a given name is the same.

Although it was supposed to be the case that the registrar filled out the Schedule, I think that it may have been the case that sometimes it was left for the couple and/or the minister to do this.

David

Brenda · Post by **Brenda** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:32 am

Thanks everyone, I think I can work out the business with the christian name for his mother,

BUT...how come he was 28 in 1865 and 30 in 1874??

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:39 am

Well now Brenda, THAT was a lie!

A lot of my second marriages have years shaved from the bride or groom, as well as my censuses....people either lied about their ages a lot, or they just didn't know.

Perhaps he didn't want to appear too old for his second wife.

Nina

Alison Plenderleith · Post by **Alison Plenderleith** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:40 am

Hi Brenda,

What was Elizabeth's age on the 1874 cert? Perhaps he wanted to even their ages up a bit if she was much younger....... Wouldn't be the first time

Kind regards,

Alison

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:15 am

Alison Plenderleith wrote:Hi Brenda,

What was Elizabeth's age on the 1874 cert? Perhaps he wanted to even their ages up a bit if she was much younger....... Wouldn't be the first time

Kind regards,

Alison

That wouldn't be uncommon

, even for a first marriage, - one of my grannies shaved 5 years off her age at marriage as she was 7 years older than grandpa

David