Malar/Milne name changes

[speleobat2]

My sister and I have just begun working on our family tree. We have come across three instances where the Malar and Milne names seem to used interchangeably. One where the parents were Milars, but in the census records all the children were Milnes, one here in the US where the family is listed as Malar but the actual record shows it as Milne. Also, our great aunt Jessie M. Clerihew is shown as Jessie Malar Clerihew on the cemetary burial records here in the US, but on her birth extract in Aberdeen, she is very clearly shown as Jessie Milne Clerihew. Can anyone explain this? My father almost never talked about his family and we can't remember him mentioning either the Malars or the Milnes!

[SarahND]

Hi speleobat2!
Welcome to Talking Scot!
As a phonetician, I am intrigued by your n/r alternation k It makes perfect sense phonetically, since the tongue is in the same place if the /r/ is a Scottish one rather than an American one. I wait with interest for some of our Aberdeen members to comment on the actual pronunciation of Milne in Aberdeen
All the best,
Sarah

[speleobat2]

Hi SarahND,

Thanks for the interesting insight. It never occurred to me that this could be phonics. I assumed that the data bases used by the internet sites were compiled by scanning records so I could understand the variations in the spelling of names that I was running across. It will be interesting to see if anyone else comes up with comments on these changes. This certainly has us puzzled. You would think that at least within the family, the names would be spelled the same way. I know that Jessie's brother John was the one who purchased her grave plot and arranged her funeral.

Carol

[DavidWW]

Hi Carol

And a further welcome to TalkingScot

Indeed, yes , there will be variations in the name appearing in indexes depending on exactly how the indexer/transcriber interpreted the original entry, - that in the context of the many factors that can apply, such as difficult hands, faded ink, bleed through, etc., etc., but the "ear of the hearer" effect can be quite astonishing in terms of what appeared in the record in the first place, i.e. noted down by the census taker, registrar, etc.

And that's without taking into account the possible effects of OCR and similar software !!


Those who have seen this example before are disqualified from commenting


In the 1851 census in Dalry in North Ayrshire, there's a family with the surname ARAPHADY.

Maw, Paw, both shown as born in Ireland, plus 5 wains all born in Dalry.

No sign of such a family in the 1861 census, or subsequent records, census or statutory relating to the family ARAPHADY.

OK, they could obviously have emigrated to N America or Australasia ......

But there's another "ear of the hearer effect" explanation that could well make sense !!, that very neatly illustrates just how easily names can become severely distorted via this effect.

And what one census taker "heard" as the name, or one church session clerk or other official "heard" as the name, is no guarantee whatsoever that a later census taker, registrar, or other official heard, with "later" possibly only being a few months or a year or so.

Any ideas out there , but remember that those of you who already know the possible explanation are banned from responding.

David

[SarahND]

Hi Carol! (easier to pronouce than your username

I assumed that the data bases used by the internet sites were compiled by scanning records so I could understand the variations in the spelling of names that I was running across.

The theory would be that someone said the name out loud and then someone else, unfamiliar with the name, wrote it down on the form. For example, I spent months searching for my Sherman/Shearman family in the 1850 census-- only to finally find them under Sheaman (which Soundex didn't pick up). Of course, they were from North Carolina, so probably didn't pronounce the /r/!!! In 1840 they were Shelman, with the common (in many langages of the world, anyway) l/r alternation.

So my question is, how would an Aberdonian pronounce Milne and is it possible, closing your eyes, to hear it as "Malar"?

All the best,
Sarah

[emanday]

ARAPHADY

and that's exactly how an old neighbour used to say it, but I'll "haud ma wheesht"

[DavidWW]

Hi Carol! (easier to pronouce than your username

I assumed that the data bases used by the internet sites were compiled by scanning records so I could understand the variations in the spelling of names that I was running across.

The theory would be that someone said the name out loud and then someone else, unfamiliar with the name, wrote it down on the form. For example, I spent months searching for my Sherman/Shearman family in the 1850 census-- only to finally find them under Sheaman (which Soundex didn't pick up). Of course, they were from North Carolina, so probably didn't pronounce the /r/!!! In 1840 they were Shelman, with the common (in many langages of the world, anyway) l/r alternation.

So my question is, how would an Aberdonian pronounce Milne and is it possible, closing your eyes, to hear it as "Malar"?

All the best,
Sarah

Any genuine Aberdonians oot there, who can comment

David

[DavidWW]

ARAPHADY

and that's exactly how an old neighbour used to say it, but I'll "haud ma wheesht"

Yer oan yer honour

A penalty o' a boatle o' ginger to apply otherwise

David

[speleobat2]

Hi everybody and thank you for taking time to respond.

To SarahND: speleo (cave) bat My husband and I are cavers--mostly the rocking chair type now!

When I was in elementary school I had a friend who's grandmother had come over from Scotland as my grandparents had. She pronounced Clerihew as "Cleddihew". I've also found it spelled Clerichew, Clerihue, Clarahue...no wonder half of my relatives seem to be "lost in the woods"! Nevertheless, I love those internet records. There is no way that my sister and I would have found a tenth of the information on our families that we have so far and, having looked at countless census records, I'm amazed that the computer does as good a job of transcribing them as it does!

Carol

[PaulaD]

ARAPHADY

How about O'Rafferty but I can't find them on Ancestry in 1851 under either name so heaven only knows what OCR called them.

Paula