Agnes Prentice - have we done all we can

[Muriel]

My current is Agnes Prentice. The first sign of her is in 1839 when she marries James Miller in Ayr - recorded in the OPR entry as being "in Ayr". In the 1841 census she is still in Ayr with husband & small daughter - recorded as being born outside county & aged 20. We then have her in all the censuses until 1881, ageing 10 years each time & saying consistently that she was born in Paisley. She dies in 1883 and her death is registered by her husband who gives her parents as Dennis Prentice, handloom weaver, & Margaret Harper.

There the problems begin. Try as we might my cousin & I can find no record of a Dennis Prentice (there are various Prentices in Renfrewshire in the early 1800's but none called Dennis & none married to a Margaret) nor any birth for Agnes - in Paisley or anywhere else. I think my inclination is to give up on this one until something emerges unheralded from the woodwork but I'd be grateful for any other views.

Muriel

[killearnan]

Brainstorming....thinking out loud.......sometimes a new pair of eyes helps

Have you searched the 1841 & 1851 census returns at Ancestry for a Dennis in the right area? I'd think it an unusual enough first name that it might be possible to find him that way if the last name is completely skewed from what you are expecting.......

Have you searched for Margaret (Harper) Prentice's death record? Or Dennis's? If one of them lived until 1855, that might have clues.

Since you are in Edinburgh, have you looked to see what non-Church of Scotland records there are at the various archives? If they were Catholic or belonged to a dissenting church, you might find them there.

Did Paisley have a newspaper? Not sure Dennis would have any reason to be in it but you never know. Ditto for papers at the time of Agnes's death. After all, maybe her husband had the wrong names for his in-laws. Stranger things have happened.

Are there other Prentice families in the 1841 to 1871 census returns in the Paisley area? If so, are any of the right age to be siblings to Agnes? If so, getting their birth/marriage/death records might yield some clues.

I'm guessing you've done much or all of this but figured it was worth suggesting anyway.......

BJ

[CatrionaL]

Muriel

Have you by any chance had a look at the Paisley Poorhouse Records? Maybe worth contacting the Paisley Library and Museum.

Best wishes
Catriona

[paddyscar]

Hi Muriel:

There are 2 records in the IGI for Agnes Prentice marrying in 1839

AGNES PRENTICE
Female Family
Marriages:
Spouse: ISAAC WHITEFORD Family
Marriage: 06 JAN 1839 Lanark, Lanark, Scotland Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M116489 1820 - 1854 1066596, 0102954 Film 6900361
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AGNES PRENTICE
Marriages:
Spouse: JAMES MILLER Family
Marriage: 29 JUL 1839 Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. Source Information:
Batch Number: 7212320
Sheet: 41
Source Call No.: 0820342

It may be clutching at straws, but could she have originally been Agnes Harper, rather than Prentice. Perhaps it was never known to her that Dennis Prentice was a step-father?

What was the age and name of Agnes' small daughter?

Frances

[Muriel]

Hi all, thanks for the suggestions.

Catriona, I hadn't thought of poorhouse records - one to follow up.

Frances, she's the one marrying James Miller & although the IGI says its a submission they are actually in the OPR for Ayr and, another one to follow up, recorded as being married by Rev'd Mr Schaw. I'll need to check if he was an Established Church minister or another & if so which.

I must say that the names of their children bother me slightly if her parents names were as given. There is neither a Dennis (perhaps not too surprising) nor a Margaret. The daughter in Ayr is my gggrandmother Cecilia & we know that she got her name from her paternal ggrandmother who was still alive, aged 86, at the time of her birth. However, the other children were in order James, Jane, Elizabeth, Alexander, John & Agnes. James & Jane were James' parents, Elizabeth was his sister (possibly twin), John was his grandfather & Agnes was presumbably called after her mother. On the other hand perhaps they didn't believe in the Scottish naming convention - it just seems strange when the other bits of my family stick to it so closely! Cecilia did have a daughter called Margaret as did her brother James but neither of them had a son called Dennis.

That leaves Alexander. I did wonder if Dennis was some peculiar short form of Alexander (a misheard Derry perhaps) but that didn't show up on any records. I also checked for the birth of an Agnes Harper & in the 1841 census for a Dennis Prentice & for a Margaret Prentice without success. The names, particularly Dennis, seem to be quite unusual for someone to get wrong. I've discovered Margaret recorded as Martha & an Isabella recorded as Elizabeth in similar circumstances. The Prentice is quite clear on the marriage record (altho' spelled as Prentise) so she must have been known by that name.

At the moment I could cheerful strangle her & her parents I'll keep you posted if a big light goes on somewhere!

Muriel

[nelmit]

Hi Muriel:

snipped...............................................

What was the age and name of Agnes' small daughter?

Frances

Frances,

A check on the 1841 census from FREECEN says Cecilia.

Regards,
Annette M

[Muriel]

Just done a search on Freecen & found in the Mearns parish of Renfrewshire

Denis Prentice, 65 HLW born Ireland
Janet 50 outside county
Jane 20 PLW Renfrewshire
Elizabeth 18 "
Margaret 12 "
William 10 "
Rebacca 7 " (related to Chewbacca??)
James 1 "

Not proof but something worth looking at seriously. Bed calls but a search of the 1851 tomorrow - I mean today

Muriel

[Muriel]

Now awake & a bit puzzled. I'd been looking for the Prentice family in the 1841 census via SP with no results. However, they did come up in Freecen. Can anyone suggest why?

I can't find any of them in the 1851 census.

Muriel

[SarahND]

This is odd! I searched and searched on Ancestry trying to duplicate your find. Finally I found them by searching Reb* born 1834 in Renfrewshire. Here is the family as transcribed by Ancestry:

1841
Main Street Bridge End, Mearns, Renfrewshire
James Prentice, 60, born Ireland
Janet Prentice, 50, born Scotland
Jane Prentice, 20, born Renfrewshire
Elizabeth Prentice, 18, born Renfrewshire
Margaret, 12, born Renfrewshire
William, 10, born Renfrewshire
Rebecca, 7, born Renfrewshire
James, 1, born Renfrewshire

A search on SP for reb* prentice age 7 in Mearns comes up with one match. You need to see the original to find out if it's James or Dennis!

All the best,
Sarah

[killearnan]

Now awake & a bit puzzled. I'd been looking for the Prentice family in the 1841 census via SP with no results. However, they did come up in Freecen. Can anyone suggest why?

I can't find any of them in the 1851 census.

At Ancestry, I fiound them by looking for a Rebecca age 7 [+/- 2] in Renfrewshire (since Rebecca is somewhat less common than the otehr names). This household pops up at Main St Bridge End in Mearns:
James Prentice 60
Elizabeth Prentice 18
James Prentice 1
Jane Prentice 20
Janet Prentice 50
Margaret Prentice 12
Rebecca Prentice 7
William Prentice 10
David Raloch 20
James Raloch 30
John Raloch 56
John Raloch 25
Mary Raloch 56

So maybe looking to see if the Raloch family is indexed might get you the right page.


In 1851, Rebecca 18 b. Eaglesham REN is listed as a cotton spring piecer living at Upper Mill Buidlings, Busby, Mearns with a family named Tannahill.

I'd guess that the 10yo William above is the 18yo in 1851 lodging at 18 Main St, Bridgeton, Calton LAN. He's a sharper in a cotton mill.

There's a Mrs. Prentice 62 b. Auchinleck, Ayr, as a lodger at Back Sneddon, Paisley Middle CHurch. Hugh Prentice 17 and Margrat Prentes 12 are also there.

Hope this helps some........
BJ