John Knox - thoughts please!

davran · Post by **davran** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:36 pm

Forgive me if I ramble on a bit, but I want to settle an ongoing argument. My ancestor John Knox b1841 Renfrew was the son of a John who married Jean McFarlane in 1824 Renfrew. I am convinced that John snr was born 1796 Renfrew son of Robert K and Jean McIndoe. Censuses list John/Jean as born Renfrew and living there. I also have the death record from 1868 of John (age 72), whose wife was Jean McFarlane. This gives John's parents as ADAM Knox/Jean McIndoe. However I can only find a marriage between ROBERT K and Jean McIndoe, so assume that Robert was known as Adam for some reason.

If you're still with me....... various people have listed my John b1841 Renfrew as being the son of John b1803 son of Robert K/Jean Whitlaw. John (1803) was born in Abbey Paisley. I have been trying to find this John in the censuses, but there are several of a similar age, so I seem to be going round in circles (and spending lots of pennies!).

I would be grateful for some clear-thinking person to point me in the right direction. PLEASE!

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:46 pm

Hi there

This 1841 census entry looks to be the family of John Knox and Jean McFarlane according to the IGI extracted births to them listed below...is this what you were looking for?

Best wishes
Jean

Name: John Knox
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Renfrewshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Renfrew
County: Renfrewshire
Address: High St
Occupation: Cotton Weaver H L W
Parish Number: 575
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Agness Knox 7
Elizabeth Knox 15
Janet Knox 5
Jean Knox 35
Jean Knox 14
John Knox 40
Margaret Knox 1
Robert Knox 12
William Knox 10

1. ROBERT KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 11 JAN 1828 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

2. WILLIAM KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 AUG 1829 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

3. JANET KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 10 AUG 1834 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

4. JEAN KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 07 FEB 1845 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

5. ELISABETH KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 OCT 1845 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

6. JOHN KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 31 OCT 1841 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

7. AGNES KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 09 DEC 1832 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

8. JEAN KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 07 MAR 1826 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

9. ELIZABETH KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 JUL 1824 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

10. MARGARET KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 DEC 1839 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

11. JOHN KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 JUL 1837 Renfrew, Renfrew, Scotland

davran · Post by **davran** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:47 pm

Hi Jean,

Thanks for the reply. I already have all the details of censuses for "my" John 1841(son of John/Jean McFarlane). The difficulty is in proving that John snr is the one born 1796 Renfrew and not the one born 1803 Abbey Paisley. Personally, I think it is quite obvious from censuses, but I'm trying to convince other people.

I was looking for John 1803 in the censuses, but am having difficulty seeing the wood for the trees as there are a few of a similar age. What I was hoping to find was his marriage to someone who is not Jean McFarlane or a death, which would give his parents. Unfortunately, being born in 1803 means he was probably not living with his parents in 1841.

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:53 pm

Hi

I sorta figured after I posted that you might already know your John's details. I thought I might have been on to a good possibility but after considerable checking all I can tell you is one John who is NOT the fellow you are looking for......(yeah I know.....not much help but sometimes elimination is the only way forward)

John Knox and Elizabeth Law....found on the IGI with children like so...

WILLIAM KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 02 JUN 1833 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

2. ELIZABETH KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 05 OCT 1838 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

3. AGNES KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 16 JUN 1835 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

4. BARBARA KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 25 JAN 1843 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

5. JEAN KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 16 NOV 1828 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

6. MARGARET KNOX - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 FEB 1831 Mearns, Renfrew, Scotland

is not the John you want. His 1880 DC states parents named George Knox (farmer) and Margaret Wilson.

That's as far as I've gone......

Best wishes
Jean

Post by **HeatherH** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:54 am

Hi There Davran,
I would imagine that who ever registered the death of John Knox didn't know or guessed at his fathers name as being Adam instead of Robert. I think we have all come across death certs with conflicting info like this.
As for the dates of John Srs Birth either 1796 or 1803 is it possible there were two sons with the same name and one died young . Or perhaps the discrepency may be because of the rounding down of adult ages on the 1841 census .
I had a look on the BRVI and could find no evidence of a marriage or children born to Adam Knox and Jean McIndoe only for Robert KNox and Jean McIndoe.
Hope this is of some help.
Happy Hunting,
HeatherH

davran · Post by **davran** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:04 pm

Thank you for your interest, ladies!

Heather, that confirms what I thought and proves I'm not going entirely mad! The two Johns could not be siblings because they have different parents. I've got that far, but just need to prove which John married Jean McFarlane!

Jean, yes, that is useful. I've also eliminated a John bc1806 Abbey who was a farmer at Walkinshaw Farm, Renfrew. His father was living with him in 1851 and was called William. I have been dithering about a John b1801 Paisley, who appears in the censuses in Rothesay, Bute married to a Marion. In 1861 he is a carter. The only marriage I could find for John/Marion was 12/11/1824 Govan. John (of Govan) married Marion Walker (of Abbey Paisley). That is, frustratingly, all there is on the marriage entry. This may be a silly question, but is the bride/groom's parish the one they were living in (as in England) or is it where they were born?

I have a feeling that John died young, but, of course, there are no easily accessible records before 1855.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:51 pm

Hi Davran

but is the bride/groom's parish the one they were living in (as in England) or is it where they were born?

What is usually mentioned in the OPRs is the parish of residence at the time of the marriage. e.g.

Were contracted to be married, So-and-so in the Parish of Whotsit, and Such-and-such in this [parish].

It may not be the parish of birth.... or it might be. It really depends how much the bride and groom may have moved about prior to marriage, which unless you know a bit about them, can be difficult to ascertain.

Best wishes
Lesley

davran · Post by **davran** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:01 pm

Thanks, Lesley.

It looks like I'll have to give up on this one again. One of my contacts calls them the "pesky Knoxes" and she is quite right. If anyone is ever in Renfrew cemetery (if there is one!) I'd be grateful for any Knox burials they find...... which, of course, they won't because the early ones were mostly only weavers and probably couldn't afford a headstone. AAARGH!!!