Crombie/Dougal Family

[Dave Coles]

My Grandmother Williamina Crombie was born in Eyemouth in 1882, her parents were William Crombie 1841 and Margaret Dougal 1839. My mother Georgina was illigitimate and I have no information about her father.
Williamina's siblings were:-
James Crombie 1872, Margaret Crombie 1876, Elizabeth Crombie 1865, Alice Crombie 1870, Isabella Crombie 1879 and William Crombie 1884.
I have good information on Alice but would most welcome help with the others and also any information on who was my mothers father.
Dave Coles

[LesleyB]

hi Dave
...and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

From what you say, I'm not sure if you have a copy of your mother's birth entry. If not, that would be the first document to find - if she was born in 1906 or before, then you should be able to find the birth on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Sometimes in the past a child was given a middle name which relates to the father's name, but sometimes not. If there is a RCE stamp on the birth entry it may indicate that there was a court case - sometimes a mother took the father to court, as far as I understand it to to establish paternity legally for some payment towards the upkeep of the child.
See:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&402

Corrections might be to name, residence, identity, or as a result of a sheriff's finding in a paternity case, with the father's name being added as directed by the sheriff, or as a result of an illegitimate child being legitimised by its parents' subsequent marriage. When an extract certificate is issued of an entry to which an RCE relates, the extract must reflect the amendments recorded in the RCE.

However, you have maybe already have covered this ground and the birth may give no information about her father at all. Sometimes in my tree, where a father has not been mentioned at birth, his name is sometimes mentioned at the time of marriage of the child, but you may have checked this avenue already too.

The IGI shows 5 children for your great grandparents, all extracts:
Father: William Crombie, Mother: Margaret Dougal
(the later children are probably not showing due to the fact that the IGI tends to fizzle out in the mid 1870s)

• ELISABETH CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Female Birth: 21 JUL 1865 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland
  
  WILLIAM CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Male Birth: 30 NOV 1867 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland
  (seems to be an earlier William here - maybe he did not survive)
  
  ALISON CRAIG CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Female Birth: 30 JAN 1870 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland
  
  JAMES CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Male Birth: 27 APR 1872 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland
  
  GEORGINA CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Female Birth: 26 JUN 1874 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland

However, all of the children should be able to be found on the ScotlandsPeople site. It might with a bit of luck (and a healthy bank balance! ) be possible to trace some of the children forward through the census records and on to marriages.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Dave Coles]

Hi Lesley,
Thank you for your very prompt response .
I have a copy of my mothers birth entry but all it says is that she was illigitimate and her mothers name!, My mother married in Grimsby but again I find no mention of her father. I will try to get a copy of the actual Marriage certificate and see what that says.
I never knew about the 'William' born 30/11/1867 or the 'Georgina'. born 26/06/1874. Maybe that is where my mum's name came from!
I have had some good follow up's from my family tree on 'genesreunited' as a lot of my history in based in England on my dad's side.
Best wishes
Dave

[Dave Coles]

Hi Lesley,
I have done a search for the copies of the birth entries for William Crombie1867, all the names tie in but the date given for his parents marriage differ from those shown on the copy for their marriage, the same with Georgina Crombie, names tie in but conflict with the parents marriage date IE.
On parents marriage copy shown as 21/7/1865
" William's Birth Copy " " 22/7/1864
" Georgina's " " " " 21/7/1863.(Could be 1865,bad copy)

The date of marriage on the other siblings birth copies is 21/7/1865.
Could this just be minor errors with the birth copies of William and Georgina or are they not related after all?
Dave

[LesleyB]

Hi Dave

Could this just be minor errors with the birth copies of William and Georgina or are they not related after all?

the date given of a marriage on the birth of children does differ sometimes - the fact that it looks to be around the correct day suggests it is just a minor error i.e. on all counts so far it is about the 21st/22nd July 1863 or 4 or 5. Does the occupation of the father stay pretty much constant and the place of the birth make sense to you?

The odd thing about that date though it that it appears to be the date of birth of daughter Elizabeth:

• ELISABETH CROMBIE - International Genealogical Index
  Gender: Female Birth: 21 JUL 1865 Eyemouth, Berwick, Scotland

It is difficult to know what is going on there - I wonder if there is some mistranscription or..... do you have the original marriage -entry? IGI extract also gives the marraige as 21 JUL 1865. I just wonder if later on they said it was a year or two earlier so that it looked a bit less, er..obvious. But as you mention, later they quote 1865 as the year of marriage. Puzzling. I'd be most interested to know what it says for the marriage date on the birth entry of daughter Elizabeth.....!

Best wishes
Lesley

[emanday]

Hi Dave,

I have a William Crombie born 11 Feb 1841 in Eyemouth. He is the brother of James born c1832 who married Agnes Collin. One of their daughters, Alice Crombie, married Alexander Landels 24 Feb 1880. Their son James married Mary Laing MacDonald, my Grandmother's sister 29 Dec 1817 in Glasgow.

Does this sound like the same Crombie line?

[LesleyB]

'Scuse the interrruption but....Oh, I just love it when these things happen -its looking promising. I do hope it is the same family.

[emanday]

Hi Lesley,

I'm really excited about the possibility as well. Certainly seems very "auspicious". I grew up knowing the Landels family but never realised they were actual rellies till Jack dug up a Poor Relief record revealing that my grandmother had THREE sisters instead of just the one I knew of.

Mary Laing MacDonald was one of the two "newly discovered ones".

[Dave Coles]

Hi Lesley,
Although I found the copies of William and Georgina.s births I can find no mention them on any census! Did you?
The birth copy of Elisabeth 21/7/1865 gives the birth at 4pm!! (Maybe a case of 'Get me to the church on time') It also shows the marriage date as 21/7/1865.
Off now to contact Emanday, looks as if we have scored a bulls eye there.
Best wishes.
Dave

[Dave Coles]

Hi Emanday.
Hello, thanks for joining in my search for the Crombie/Dougal history.
YES! YES!, I am sure we are talking about the same people
My family tree has the William Crombie 11/2/1841 ( His daughter Williamina was my grandmother), with brother James c1832 (the info on his family is new to me), plus Alexandra c1860, Jane? c1835 and George c1837.
Their parents were William Crombie 1798 and Alison Craig c1803.
I have my family tree set up on the web site:- genesreunited.com. (free) Do you have access to it, if so I can let you see my tree and I could see yours so that we can fill in some of the gaps.
I see you now live in Bristol, we live in Lydney which is not far away.
My Wife Julie comes from Stirling in Scotland.