Opinions please on possible father

[ellenavon]

Hello All

Am researching for a friend.

Her great grandfather JOHN ROSS was christened at Fraserburgh 28 July 1850. The illegitimate son of JOHN ROSS and CATHERINE McDONALD.

The OPR reads " John Ross Tailor in New Pitsligo And Catharin McDonald had an illegitimate child called John in presence of Jane and Isabella Taylor in Philorth"

Philorth was a big house/estate just outside Fraserburgh.
John Ross's (b.1850) marraige and death certs both state that his father John Ross was a tailor.

1851 census Catherine and baby John were visitors at a house in Mintlaw, Parish of Longside.

Catherine later (1859) married Joseph Emslie, a doctor, and young John was brought up in the new family.

So - to tracing young John's dad............

In 1841, Catherine was a female servant at Philorth, with a family of Rosses, including a John, age 13 (c1828). So its perfectly likely that if Catherine was still there some 8/9 years later, that she and John produced young John, in spite of the 12 year age difference. Bet John's parents were chuffed if so!

The parents of this John Ross are William, a gamekeeper at Philorth, and Isabella.

The spanner in the works however is that there is another John Ross within the potential age frame to be young John's dad, and born and brought up in New Pitsligo.

1841 census at New Pitsligo High Street:

Donald Ross, 71, head, (died 1856 New Pitsligo, Tyrie)
Bell Ross, 40, (later censuses Isabella)
Jean Shaw, 19 (later established as Isabella's daughter before marraige to Donald)
Alexander Ross, 13
JOHN ROSS, 9
Isabella Ross, 7.

Thought that the two John Rosses, c.1828 and c.1832 could be cousins, but William, father of NO 1 suspect had the inconsideration to die between 1851 and 1855, so can't tie in the fathers of Donald and William.

Are you all still with me??

To add to my dilemma as to which John Ross might be daddy, I can only find one relevant John Ross on the 1851.

1851 @ 5 East North Street, Aberdeen a lodger

John Ross, 21 (c.1830), Tailor Journeyman, b. Tyrie, Aberdeenshire.

So........... is he Donald and Isabella's son, or is he William and Isabella's son???

And I can't find any John Rosses of anywhere near the right age frame, born Tyrie, Fraserburgh, Rathen, Pitsligo or anywhere near the right geography later than 1851.

Help and opinions please as to where to look next and which one would you more incline to as daddy???

Thanks if you had the patience to stick with this!

Ellen.

[LesleyB]

Hi Ellen

1841 census at New Pitsligo High Street:

Donald Ross, 71, head, (died 1856 New Pitsligo, Tyrie)
Bell Ross, 40, (later censuses Isabella)
Jean Shaw, 19 (later established as Isabella's daughter before marraige to Donald)
Alexander Ross, 13
JOHN ROSS, 9
Isabella Ross, 7.

Was an occupation given for Donald Ross on this census?

Best wishes
Lesley

[ellenavon]

Hi Lesley

Labourer.

Cheers

Ellen.

Edit: DC states Pensioner.

[LesleyB]

Hi Ellen

John Ross is not going to be the easiest of names to work with ... but my hunch would be to track this guy as his occupation matches:

1851 @ 5 East North Street, Aberdeen a lodger
John Ross, 21 (c.1830), Tailor Journeyman, b. Tyrie, Aberdeenshire.

So........... is he Donald and Isabella's son, or is he William and Isabella's son???

If you can, follow him through the census years, (lets hope he stayed with the same occupation!) and eventually to his death when, with any luck, that should state his parents. If ne married, all the better, as you may have a more accurate account of who his parents were.

Best wishes
Lesley

[ellenavon]

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your interest. Thats just my problem! Can't find him anywhere on subsequent censuses.

I'll have another trawl through later today, in case I'm just being snow blind.

Cheers

Ellen.

[LesleyB]

Hi Ellen

And I can't find any John Rosses of anywhere near the right age frame, born Tyrie, Fraserburgh, Rathen, Pitsligo or anywhere near the right geography later than 1851.

Sorry, I must be having a dopey day - I didn't read that bit!!

Best wishes
Lesley

[emanday]

Catherine later (1859) married Joseph Emslie, a doctor, and young John was brought up in the new family.

There isn't a chance young John later took his stepfather's surname for his own?

1861 Scotland Census
Name: Joseph Emslie
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Catherine
Gender: Male
Where born: Tarland, Aberdeen
Registration Number: 168B
Registration district: Old Machar
Civil parish: Old Machar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Ruthrieston Old Deesid Manis Of Ruthrieston Rd
Occupation: Retired Surgeon
ED: 21
Page: 15 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 79
Line: 11
Roll: CSSCT1861_26
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Edmonston 18
Catherine Emslie 40
John R Emslie 11 Middle name possibly Ross and the age matches.
Joseph Emslie 38
Joseph L E Emslie 6 Mo

[emanday]

Here he is again, full name, and his mother seems to still be using her own name?

1871 Scotland Census
Name: John Ross Emslie
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Joseph
Mother's name: Catherine
Gender: Male
Where born: Fraserburgh, Abrdnshire
Registration Number: 168/2
Registration district: Old Machar
Civil parish: Old Machar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 40 1/2 Upper Denburn
Occupation: Baker
ED: 10
Page: 46 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 271
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1871_34
Household Members: Name Age
John Ross Emslie 20
Joseph Emslie 44
Joseph L E Emslie 10
Catherine McDonald 46

[ellenavon]

Thanks Mary

Yes, that is John Ross jnr. I have him traced through his life. Its his dad, John Ross snr, that I'm having trouble with.

I have made some progress (so much for going out to get some jobs done today!) - but probably up the wrong tree!

I have a John Hay Ross, Tailors Foreman, age 31, born Aberdeen, on the 1861 England census in Sheffield. With his wife Christina Rae, and two children Francis, 6 and Joanna, 4. All four showing as born Aberdeen.

Traced the marraige of John Ross (note no Hay middle name) and Christina Rae in Aberdeen 29 Oct 1854. Why could they not have waited 3 months or so....

This is definitely the John Ross, Tailor age 21, born Tyrie on the 1851 census at East North Street, Aberdeen, as one of the witnesses at the wedding was Robert Milne, Tailor, who was also at East North Street on the 1851.

So far so good. But that still doesn't tell me who John Ross's parents were. And I can't find this family on the later censuses, England or Scotland.

I'm praying that they came back to Scotland as I'm hopeless at stuff south of the border. I'm off to have a quick look for Christina Ross nee Rae's death in Scotland and if no luck I'm definitely off out!!!

Thanks for everyone's help.

Ellen.

[ArchiveCookie]

Stangely, there is a John Hay Ross who lived in Custer, Montana. This John was born in Ross-shire, Scotland in 1888. He married in Ontario, Canada in 1914. His parents were listed on the marriage as Donald and Maggie. So I went to the 1891 census, and there they all are in Lochbroom. And it occurred to me to wonder if perhaps this Donald, who was 40 in 1891, was at all related to your John Hay Ross, born 21 years before him...

So, I thought I might try looking for this Donald's marriage to Maggie in order to pin down his parents... and found them in 1877. Donald's father was Alexander Ross, deceased at time of marriage. Ok, back to the census. Found them in 1851, right after Donald's birth, living in Kilmuir. Next step is to find Alexander's death... Believe it or not, he lived to be about 96 years old! Unfortunately, his death certificate in 1909 gives no information on his parents' names.

So, this became a dead end - but it was worth a shot, and you just never know... sometimes when the door is shut there's a window that's open a crack...