Help finding marriage and births

Orangeblossom · Post by **Orangeblossom** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:22 pm

Hi. I have a problem with this couple and wondered if anyone can offer suggestions as to how to find a marriage and births for their chidren.

Richard Liversedge, born 1821 in Tadcaster, Yorkshire, England 'married' Marion (also Marrion, Miriam etc) Johnston, born c1826 Scotland.

They had two children, apparently in Scotland.
Thomas Liversedge about 1853
Elizabeth Ann Liversedge about 1854

In the 1901 census, Thomas gives his birthplace as Leith.

Richard and family lived in England for all of the censuses, so they are no help.

I have searched the IGI and ScotlandsPeople for a marriage and the births, but have been unable to do so.

Can anyone offer any pointers as to where they might be, or even locate them for me?

Thanks in advance

Tracy

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:50 pm

hi Tracy
...and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

Can you maybe fill us in a little on the family as you have found them in later census records in England - what was Richard's occupation? Something to do with seafaring, maybe? (just wondering how he met Marion??

) In the 1901, where was Thomas living at the time, what was he doing.....?

Best wishes
Lesley

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:55 am

Hi Tracy

No I'm not stalking you

....but I have read this post on other boards so have been giving it some consideration for a day or two now. Sorry to say I don't have any brilliant answers but perhaps some suggestions from observations.

Richard is found at home in Tadcaster in 1841 and then in Great Grimsby in 1851 census. The latter just so happens to be a seaport which would give him mode of transportation to Leith. Now his occupation of Stone Mason doesn't seem to tie in with ocean going voyages...unless there were some project going on in Leith some time between 1851 census and say 1854 (when the two children are born in Scotland) This might be something to check out...possible work opportunities for a stone mason. If not that perhaps he just jumped a ship to see where it would take him...he was afterall lodging with some chaps who worked on the docks so I'm sure they knew their way around them! So let's assume that he gets to Leith and immediately meets and falls in love with Marion and one thing leading to the next along comes wee Thomas. Thomas who on the 1851 census is given as age 9 which really narrows up that window of opportunity for meeting, marriage, and childbirth. Since Richard's father's name is Thomas then I'll for now hold to the fact that Thomas is likely Richard's child. I had considered that maybe Marion had two children out of wedlock and then found her way to Tadcaster but that just doesn't make as much sense as Richard traveling north. Since you know that their 3rd child was born in Tadcaster then it's only logical that when the work project was over in Leith or whereever then they packed up and went home to meet the family staying for a bit and then moving on to Castle Barnard by 1861. All the while Richard sticking with the same occupation.

So now we know that the OPR records just prior to statutory recordkeeping are not famous for being complete or extant. Leith is not well represented in the IGI from what I can tell. Also not sure if you have considered that they may have married outside the Church of Scotland...especially with Richard being English. So those records would not be found on SP anyway. Do you have records in England of the christenings of the next two children? Do you know if Marion had siblings and if so where did their marriages take place?

As you can see this is all hypothetical but based on the few census facts gleaned from the various census returns.

I wish I could pull them out of the hat but not looking good....

Best wishes
Jean

momat · Post by **momat** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:40 am

Tracy,
Have you looked on the Yorkshire BMD
http://www.yorkshirebmd.info/
There are entries there for the 2 Children's names within a year or two of your dates.
Could not see a Marriage for the Parents.
Hope this helps.

Orangeblossom · Post by **Orangeblossom** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:01 pm

Hi all. Thanks for all your replies. I am unable at the moment to answer them properly, but I didn't want you to think I'd just posted and disappeard.

I will return tomorrow with answers to all your queries.

Thanks again

Orangeblossom · Post by **Orangeblossom** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:29 pm

Hi Lesley

Richard appears in the following census pages:
1841 - Son - Class: HO107; Piece 1283; Book: 14; Civil Parish: Tadcaster; County: Yorkshire; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 32; Page: 27; Line: 16; GSU roll: 464249.
1851 - Lodger - Class: HO107; Piece: 2113; Folio: 309; Page: 22; GSU roll: 87742.
1861 - Head - Class: RG9; Piece: 3719; Folio: 42; Page: 24; GSU roll: 543177.
1871 - Head - Class: RG10; Piece: 4897; Folio: 16; Page: 25; GSU roll: 848008.
He was, as Jean said, a Stone Mason.

In 1901, Thomas is living in Middlesbrough with his wife Margaret and their children. Class: RG13; Piece: 4577; Folio: 59; Page: 18.
He's a Painter.

Hi Jean
Thanks for your thoughts on this. It always helps to get a second viewpoint.
I have considered that they were not Church of Scotland, but I don't know how I would find any other records.
The only Christening on the IGI is that of the one child who was born and died in 1859 - Richard Cammomile Liversegde (Cammomile is from Richards side of the family). The mothers name is noted as Miriam. I am starting to think this is the correct spelling of her name. Her granddaughter was named after her, and is also called Marion and Miriam alternately. He was born in Tadcaster.

If I have the correct Marion, all her siblings married in Newhaven, Leith.

Hi Maureen
Thanks for looking. I don't think any of the names on the YorkshireBMD site are mine, but I will look into them.

Thanks all for your help

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:33 am

Hi Tracy

One more spelling of Marian to consider as there is this birth from the IGI as well...

JOHN WILLIAM LIVERSEDGE Pedigree
Male

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 02 NOV 1856 Tadcaster, Yorkshire, England

Death:
Burial:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: RICHARD LIVERSEDGE Family
Mother: MIRRION

It appears that perhaps they were attending to business within the local Tadcaster church at this point. I don't have any first hand experience in searching for any but it might be worthwhile to see if any other denominational records are maintained at NAS for Leith. Not sure if this link to Genuki might be helpful....

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ChurchRecords.html

The child showing on the 1861 census as born in Castle Barnard probably isn't showing up as this seems to be all the time frame the IGI contains on that area...

Barnard Castle
Christenings P000051 1609-1812 E000051
Marriages M000051 1619-1812
Christening (Newgate Steet Ind.) C064541 1806-1837
Christening (Wesleyan) C064531 1803-1837

Best wishes
Jean

Orangeblossom · Post by **Orangeblossom** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:54 am

Thanks Jean. I must've missed that one.

I'll have a look at that link and see if there's anything I can get from it.

Thanks for taking an interest

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:42 am

There are Episcopal births for Leith at NAS:
CH12/1 Leith, St James's Episcopal Church, Constitution Street 1727-1887
- if you were English, that was likely to be the church you would attend.
The records appeared to be quite neat and well kept when I saw them earlier this year.

CH12/1/14 has Register of Baptisms, 1847-1863, Confirmations, 1852-1863

Best wishes
Lesley

Orangeblossom · Post by **Orangeblossom** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:34 pm

Thanks Lesley.

Is there any way I can view these records online? I am not able to travel to Scotland.