Macfadyen. Stuck! How to proceed?

[Fidget]

Hello all, new member here.
I have Thomas Mcfadden/Macfadyen born in Scotland in 1786 on the 1841 Carlisle census and married in Carlisle in 1806. I'm trying to find out where in Scotland he came from. I've listed all the macfaydens( and spelling varients) on Scotland's People born around that time and grouped them into families. I'd hoped to find Thomas by process of elimination i.e. looking at marriages and the 1841 census in Scotland. But it's a big gap and I haven't been able to match them up.
Any other suggestions on how to proceed (except give up)?
Does Scotland's People list everyone? How do you find out about deaths before Stat records?
Thanks

[LesleyB]

Hi Fidget
...and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

Does Scotland's People list everyone?

Before statutory registration in 1855, the records SP hold are the OPRs - the old parish records of the Established Church of Scotland, so if your ancestor belonged to any other Church e.g. Baptist, Methodist, Quaker, Catholic etc. you are very unlikely to find them mentioned there. Scotlands People have all the records online from the extant OPRs, but for many parishes the OPRs themselves are not complete either..

How do you find out about deaths before Stat records?

We have some information in the FAQ section:
Deaths before 1855 – Monumental Inscriptions
Monumental Inscriptions, usually referred to as MIs, refer to the text on a grave stone and can be a huge help in determining a date of death for those who died before Statutory Registration in 1855. However, as is the case with the Old Parish Records (OPRs) there is a certain amount of luck involved as to whether an MI exists for the person you are looking for. Read more here....
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 1801#31801

Monumental Inscriptions & related web links
Click the link below for a list of web sites which contain MIs and/or burial information for various areas.
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 1798#31798

Deaths in the OPRs
Looking for deaths before Statutory Registration in 1855 can be a difficult task – there may be mention of a death in the OPRs (Old Parish Registers) but so much depends on which parish your ancestors lived in and any surviving records there may be from that parish. Read more here...
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4510

Best wishes
Lesley

[JustJean]

Hiya Fidget

Tough one.....lots of name variables....early time frame....marriage in England.....3 strikes against you I think you've got the right idea in locating and establishing possible family groups in Scotland with that surname. Have you utilized the IGI or the BIVRI to narrow to births in specific parishes close to the border? How about a naming pattern or any interesting middle names for Thomas' children? Any knowledge of any siblings to THomas? What occupation was Thomas in in 1841? Did Thomas always live in Carlisle and die there?

Leslie has given you some good links and yes SP only contains OPR information from the Church of Scotland records and presently no information at all of OPR burials. There will be burial data coming online there in the future but it is understood that burial recordkeeping was not a ciritical concern of the church and many parishes simply did not keep any at all.

Best wishes
Jean

[Fidget]

Thanks Lesley,
I should have read the FAQs.
Sadly, I have no idea which parish I need. I don't suppose there is a magical central database that I've missed?

[Fidget]

Hi Jean
I have looked at IGI but what is BIVRI?
You are right, thomas's family has recurrent names down to 1940s and I've got 4 families on Scotland's peeps around 1780s with likely names and I'm resisting the (strong) temptation to just bag one of them!
Thomas was a calico printer in Carlisle, is there any way I can find people by occupation?

[Fidget]

Hi Lesley

I've just had a quick look at the headstones link, thanks for the suggestion. I'll work through it later. fingers crossed.

[emanday]

Hi Fidget,

A warm welcome to

I've just had a look at the 1841 census for Thomas and, under the column "Whether born in Scotland, Ireland or Foreign Parts" there is only a "Y" for yes.

Any possibility he might have actually been born in Ireland (or elsewhere for that matter)?

P.S. Love your username - that was what my Dad was always calling me because I couldn't sit still

[JustJean]

Hi Jean
I have looked at IGI but what is BIVRI?
You are right, thomas's family has recurrent names down to 1940s and I've got 4 families on Scotland's peeps around 1780s with likely names and I'm resisting the (strong) temptation to just bag one of them!
Thomas was a calico printer in Carlisle, is there any way I can find people by occupation?

Hi again

BIVRI is British Isles Vital Records Index but it's not online...just a CD resource put out by the Family Search folk. It doesn't contain all the records but it does permit some search methods that the IGI and SP do not...and in the past I've found it usually has pretty good coverage in Dumfries/Ayrshire etc areas. For example typically picks up some male christenings that the IGI does not.

Searching by occupation is possible on the Scottish census indexes through ancestry for one, but this would only help you find any McFadyen etc folks alive in 1841 born Scotland same occupation as Thomas. An extreme measure to try and find any brothers!!! This tends to work better with passed along trades/skills like shoemaker or tailor but can be a desperate maneuver if you just won't give up Calico printing on the other hand isn't necessarily local to just the borders area.....I would think more industrialized areas closer to Glasgow if I were guessing.

I can understand your urge to just bag a family and call it good. If you've found one you particularly like have you tried tracing some of the members of that forward to see who they marry where they live and die and any names for witnesses or the like that could correspond? Again...desperate measures

Not much help I fear!

Best wishes
Jean

[Fidget]

Hi Mary,
oh dear, I thought it was a curly S for Scotland! If it is "Elsewhere" I've really had it!
Fidget, signing off for now to go do some housework!

[Fidget]

Thanks again Jean. I'll be consulting the BIVRI. Desperate measures are all I have left now, but that what makes it soooo much fun! Ive been trying to link all the 1780 ish people to the 1841 census. Hadn't thought of looking at possible brothers occupations. I'll try that. (after some housework)
Fidget