ScotlandsPeople User Group Meeting Minutes

[DavidWW]

I've just had a good look round the SP site but can't see anywhere that they now post the minutes of User Group meetings, - it used to be in the same area as the now defunct SP Discussion Group !

The provisional minutes of the last meeting on 5th April were emailed to UG Members recently, and I think that it's only correct that they should be disseminated as widely as possible, so have appended them to this post, which makes it quite a long post, but I can't see an alternative, unless (Dave and Andrew, help please) there's some way that they could be placed on a website and a link put here.............

There's nothing unexpected, - some progress on some long running issues, - apart from one area, which is the possibility of the indexes, but indexes only for the "closed" records going on-line, i.e. births from 100 years ago to date, marriages from 75 years ago to date, and deaths from 50 years ago to date, i.e. the records where it is unlikely, in the near future at least, that digitised images will be available on-line. It will be possible to order copies.

Don't get too excited, however, as there's a way to go before this becomes a reality, if it ever does!

It's easy for me as a UG member to understand the context of the various agenda iterms, so don't hesitate to ask if an item is unclear.

Davie



Scotlandspeople User Group

Seventh Meeting

19.00, 5 April 2005

Ladywell House, Edinburgh

Present:

Martin Tyson, (Chairman), Departmental Records Officer, GROS
Raymond Evans, GROS (Secretary)
Richard Callison, Scotland on Line
Alison Wallace, Scotland on Line
Alan Stewart
John McCurdie
David W Webster
George Maxwell
Jan Gow (by teleconference)
Scott Buie (by teleconference)

1. Apologies

Marie Dougan
Bruce Irving
Andy Keogh
Paul Parr
Ron Bell
Sue Macbeth

2. Minutes of the Last Meeting

The September minutes were approved.

3. Matters Arising and Action Points from the previous minutes (item numbers refer to September minutes)

3.1 Index Access (item 3.2)

Martin reported that access to present day indexes was still being looked at and could be with us this financial year 2005/06. However there have been concerns from groups about privacy issues, gender/adoption matters and there would also be a concern from within GROS in relation to the fulfilment of extract orders.

Jan reported that in New Zealand the indexes had been on line but privacy issues had led to their removal. Scott had previously reported similar issues in parts of the US.

3.2 Charging Structure, Bulk Access (item 3.3)

Richard told the group that he had met with the Scottish Libraries and Information Council and consideration was being given to which libraries would be chosen for the pilot scheme, which should start in the autumn. Jan asked if consideration could be given to a library in New Zealand being included in the pilot.

Richard also reported that both he and Martin had met with Learning Teaching Scotland to discuss access within schools.

3.3 Scottish Family History Service (item 4)

Martin said that the acquisition of a contractor was at an advanced stage and that the core parts of the campus should be ready by summer 2006.

3.4 Website Enhancements (item 5)

Richard said that all of the high and medium enhancements would be included on the merged site

3.5 Timetable of coming events (item 6)

Martin apologised on behalf of GROS about earlier over optimistic timetable predictions. There were continuing problems with the RCE’s and he stressed that it was essential that the cross-indexing system was fully operational before being released.

3.6 Corrections to incorrect/illegible images (item 7)

Raymond reported that a system was now in place whereby corrected images were being passed to SoL via CD by the GROS Digros team for action. John noted that some errors that that been corrected within New Register House were still not correct on SP a year after having been reported.

Richard said that a fully updated statutory records index would be implemented at the launch of the new site.

3.7 Availability of missing images (item 8 )

Raymond told the group that the GROS Micrographics Unit was making good progress towards the completion of the 1932 marriages and was also working on 1954 marriages. However it has been a slow laborious process. Alan asked about the completion of older missing years. Martin explained that different years each had different priorities but that the imaging would continue. Raymond would discuss with the Unit the possibility of processing a year of missing images appropriate to Scotlandspeople.

4. 1871 Census

Martin referred to a paper that had been produced by Ron Bell of the GROS Digros team. He explained that 1871 had been produced in much the same way as the 1901 census with the contractor using the double keying method. The error rate after QA was roughly the same as in 1901 and so it was decided to proceed with going live. There had been some surprise over the larger number of surname variants for 1871 than in the later censuses, and this was being looked at. John had previously raised an anomaly with regard to the McCardie/McCurdie surname transcriptions resulting in a 14% error rate. Martin explained that both were valid surnames but that further work was required on the surname list.

There was discussion over which census should be placed on line next. Martin agreed to produce a GROS time schedule and the User Group would indicate a preference.

Richard explained that the “Dunfermline glitch” had been rectified.

5. Website merger

Martin reported that many of the group had experienced access problems during the testing phase. Jan said that she was getting into the site but not getting access to the images. Alison agreed to check this out.

There was an issue with the deaths on the two female surnames. Richard said that this was an Oracle problem.

Jan requested a Soundex search on the second female surname. George and Alan both reported an ActiveX problem which Alison would check. She said that there would be no pop ups on the new site.

Alison told the group that she had received 4 test reports back and that the main issue of linking the districts and counties had now been fixed. It was agreed that once all reports had been received Alison would implement any further fixes required, and the UG would have a further opportunity to test this next iteration.


Overall the Group felt that the look and feel of the new site was a big improvement and that the addition of the wills and testaments was excellent. Alan felt that some of the colours were a bit lurid. Richard explained that this was possibly to do with the make/quality of the monitor, but the colours were consistent with the new SP brand guidelines. He also explained that text size could be a problem and that “very large” was to be avoided.

David enquired on progress with regard to the Lord Lyon. Martin said that the QA of the indexes was complete but that there was further work required on the Blazons.

It was hoped that the new site could be launched during the month of May

6. Discussion Group/TalkingScot

Martin reiterated the reasons why the Discussion Group had been removed and cited a recent case involving the Herald newspaper. GROS had also heeded the advice of Scottish Executive solicitors on this matter.

David gave a progress report on TalkingScot which has a link from the new SP test site and will have from the new merged site. He said that the site was going well, had 270 members and had generated around 5000 postings. The site does not singularly cover genealogy and has had good editorial coverage in three magazines. The site contains a warning about defamatory postings.

It was agreed to set up a “contact us” link on SP to enable people to contact the members of the User Group. John agreed to monitor the traffic in the first instance. David produced a leaflet which would be circulated and a larger version could be posted within New Register House.

7. Time Limit

Martin reported that the time limit on site access had been officially extended from 48 hours to 168 hours with effect from 1 April and that this was now reflected in the Statutory Instrument.

8. Disaster recovery

Richard told the group that since their loss of data last October, a decision was taken to re-site the servers in another data centre. A new back up system is now in place and the communication links have been strengthened.

9. Fixed dates for meetings

It was agreed that a date of next meeting would be set at, or just after, each meeting. Raymond agreed to canvas dates, probably in August. The Group felt that Monday was a good day. There was an agreement to hold 3 meetings per year.

The Group decided on a change of time for the next meeting. It will take place at 12.00 UK time which will mean 06.00 for Scott, 21.00 for Sue and 23.00 for Jan. The venue will change to CBC House to allow all three overseas members to participate.

10. Permanence of viewed images on SP site

David quoted an instance of a customer not being able to retrieve a previously viewed image and was told by customer services that this was due to re-indexing. Richard reported that this answer had been given in error by an inexperienced member of staff and that no images were deleted from customer accounts by SP. In addition, the new site will not allow images to be deleted by even the customer.

11. Any Other Business

11.1 Cookies

Sue asked for this to be raised. She said that she had come across customers who were not able to access images when their cookies were switched off, and felt that some form of warning should be posted. Alison explained that on the new site a warning would be displayed if a customer has failed to activate their cookies

11.2 Statistics

Alison tabled the latest statistics which the group looked at. She explained that business had increased considerably as a result of the BBC programme “Who do you think you are”.

Within “call types” she explained that payment issues had been broken down. David commented on the high number of non matches but Richard explained that these numbers were declining.

It was felt that the USA market could be exploited further and Richard also told the group that the Scotland/Rest of UK split of business was about 50/50.

12. Date of Next Meeting

Raymond to canvas dates in August.

[JustJean]

.......It's easy for me as a UG member to understand the context of the various agenda iterms, so don't hesitate to ask if an item is unclear.

Davie

you asked for it.....

3.4 Website Enhancements (item 5)

Richard said that all of the high and medium enhancements would be included on the merged site.

Could you enumerate these perhaps?...since access to the old UG Minutes is no longer possible we can't reference just what was on the table.....

3.7 Availability of missing images (item 8 )

Raymond told the group that the GROS Micrographics Unit was making good progress towards the completion of the 1932 marriages and was also working on 1954 marriages. However it has been a slow laborious process. Alan asked about the completion of older missing years. Martin explained that different years each had different priorities but that the imaging would continue. Raymond would discuss with the Unit the possibility of processing a year of missing images appropriate to Scotlandspeople.

If a person conducted a forward trace into this time frame they would be unable to obtain data from these years?....or find it indexed?....Just curious......I realize it doesn't affect the online SP data but in a few years it would.

There was discussion over which census should be placed on line next. Martin agreed to produce a GROS time schedule and the User Group would indicate a preference.

Does that mean the UG can't indicate their preference until the next meeting sometime in August???

10. Permanence of viewed images on SP site

David quoted an instance of a customer not being able to retrieve a previously viewed image and was told by customer services that this was due to re-indexing. Richard reported that this answer had been given in error by an inexperienced member of staff and that no images were deleted from customer accounts by SP. In addition, the new site will not allow images to be deleted by even the customer.

Won't that get to be a hassle?? I mean I know my viewed images stretch on for pages and pages but at least I have the capability of eliminating the ones that were "mis-spent credits". Now we'll have to sift through all the good and bad ones if we might need to reaccess them???? Even more reason to be sure and save the images you want to your own computer and print a hard copy. Unless SP were to provide some sort of filing cabinet that would permit users to place the link to their viewed image in a keep or a trash box......

It was felt that the USA market could be exploited further....

Awwwhhhhh....exploited can be such a cruel word....couldn't you be a little kinder and gentler with us?

Jean

[sporran]

Hello Jean,


the enhancement requests were part of an Upgrade paper that was linked to the 4th UG meeting in February 2004 (although it was written in August 2003). They were ranked for importance in the 5th UG meeting in June 2004.

If you, or anyone else, would like a copy of these then please e-mail me.


Regards,

John

[DavidWW]

.......It's easy for me as a UG member to understand the context of the various agenda iterms, so don't hesitate to ask if an item is unclear.

Davie

you asked for it.....

3.4 Website Enhancements (item 5)

Richard said that all of the high and medium enhancements would be included on the merged site.

Could you enumerate these perhaps?...since access to the old UG Minutes is no longer possible we can't reference just what was on the table.....

See Sporran's reply

3.7 Availability of missing images (item 8 )

Raymond told the group that the GROS Micrographics Unit was making good progress towards the completion of the 1932 marriages and was also working on 1954 marriages. However it has been a slow laborious process. Alan asked about the completion of older missing years. Martin explained that different years each had different priorities but that the imaging would continue. Raymond would discuss with the Unit the possibility of processing a year of missing images appropriate to Scotlandspeople.

If a person conducted a forward trace into this time frame they would be unable to obtain data from these years?....or find it indexed?....Just curious......I realize it doesn't affect the online SP data but in a few years it would.

Were that possible at the moment then there would be no images.

There was discussion over which census should be placed on line next. Martin agreed to produce a GROS time schedule and the User Group would indicate a preference.

Does that mean the UG can't indicate their preference until the next meeting sometime in August???

No, poll will be taken via email.

10. Permanence of viewed images on SP site

David quoted an instance of a customer not being able to retrieve a previously viewed image and was told by customer services that this was due to re-indexing. Richard reported that this answer had been given in error by an inexperienced member of staff and that no images were deleted from customer accounts by SP. In addition, the new site will not allow images to be deleted by even the customer.

Won't that get to be a hassle?? I mean I know my viewed images stretch on for pages and pages but at least I have the capability of eliminating the ones that were "mis-spent credits". Now we'll have to sift through all the good and bad ones if we might need to reaccess them???? Even more reason to be sure and save the images you want to your own computer and print a hard copy. Unless SP were to provide some sort of filing cabinet that would permit users to place the link to their viewed image in a keep or a trash box......

It appears to be the lesser evil in terms of people accidentally deleting images.

Davie

[Guest]

One language??

As we have discovered in the past, even though we all speak English,
Scottish English is not always the same as American English - or any other
country's English, for that matter.

In reading the minutes of the Users Group, like Jean, I cringed when I saw
the phase "It was felt that the USA market could be exploited further....".
To an American the term "exploit" means to "take advantage of" - "treat
unfairly". There are indeed other definitions of the word such as "make use of" or "develop".

Perhaps another time the American market might be addressed as "needing to be better developed", rather than exploited - just a matter of semantics - same difference.

Catherine

[DavidWW]

One language??

As we have discovered in the past, even though we all speak English,
Scottish English is not always the same as American English - or any other
country's English, for that matter.

In reading the minutes of the Users Group, like Jean, I cringed when I saw
the phase "It was felt that the USA market could be exploited further....".
To an American the term "exploit" means to "take advantage of" - "treat
unfairly". There are indeed other definitions of the word such as "make use of" or "develop".

Perhaps another time the American market might be addressed as "needing to be better developed", rather than exploited - just a matter of semantics - same difference.

Catherine

Catherine

You can take it that your opinions in terms of semantical differences are correct !!!

Davie

[Guest]

Hi David,
I knew no offense was intended.

Thank you for taking the time to set the minutes of your meeting here for us. We do appreciate being kept in the loop - my apologies for not saying that in the previous message. At times I have a tendency to get too focused on one issue.
Catherine

[sporran]

Hello Catherine,


just to ramble a bit, the ways in which words are used also changes over time. A good example, relevant to genealogy, is journeyman. The original meaning was "a workman who has served his apprenticeship or who has fully learned his trade", so a journeyman would be proud to reach that status. Nowadays, it is used somewhat disparagingly, e.g. "journeyman golfer", as someone who competes but is always well down the field. Indeed, one could say mediocre, but the original meaning of that word was average or middling!


Regards,

John

[Guest]

Hello John,

Point well taken! At times older records are difficult to understand for the very reason that you have addressed.
Many in the list of My Favorites are links to sites with old documents, not always concerning my lines, just a place to go for reference to verbiage of the time periods.

Catherine

[douglas]

"Martin reiterated the reasons why the Discussion Group had been removed"

What were the reasons for this?

Douglas