Pvt Greenlees Royal Artillery - 1800s

[Pandabean]

Hi all,

I don't think I have asked this before but I have a bit of a mystery. My many times great Grandfather, William Greenlees was born around 1770 and died in 1823 in Inveresk.

He was married to Elizabeth Peat and they only had one son. William Greenlees born in 1814. Now in 1872 William's wife dies (Magaret Sneddon) and then he remarries nearly 3 months later to an Ellen Grieve. On the marriage certificate he states that his father William was a Private in the Royal Artillery. In no other certificates, even his death cert I can find no other reference to this. William's (the father) wife, Elizabeth died in 1843.

Is there a way to check whether William (the son) was lying about his father's occupation? I have very little experience with military records prior to WW1.

Thanks

[Currie]

Hello Andy,

Possibly the only help this’ll give you is to bring you back to the top of the list. However, if you google for "william greenlees""peat" you’ll get 9 results. I think you may have seen them already but if not you could check. Maybe they have extra info.

As regards the military you really have very little information to work with. Maybe he was in the army during the Napoleonic Wars, maybe not. I have an idea you need a fair bit more info than that to get anywhere but you could try a browse through this Napoleonic Wars forum http://genforum.genealogy.com/napoleonicwars/

National Archives has Waterloo Medal lists at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/docu ... search.asp Type waterloo artillery in the Quick Search then click Military and Defence in Other Records.

Best of luck,
Alan

[Pandabean]

Thanks Alan,

The google searches are both by me and my cousin. Mostly trying to find William's parents.

What we believe about William being in the Army is that it was probably a lie as the occupation on his son's death certificate he was a General Labourer.

Are these the records you are reffering to?

Waterloo Medal Book. Officers, Non-commissioned Officers and Privates of the Royal Horse and Foot Artillery. Pages 8 - 36 1816

[Currie]

Back again Andy,

He could easily have been both Soldier and Labourer at different times in his life. The Soldier story is from the Son while the informant for the Labourer one is someone further down the track who quite possibly never knew the man well enough to hear the Soldier story first hand. I don’t think I would let the Labourer occupation throw doubts on the Soldier one.

As to the Archives I guess it could be any of these three. He may not be on any if he had left the Army before Waterloo. I haven’t seen any of these documents before and don’t know how useful they are.

Waterloo Medal Book. Officers, Non-commissioned Officers and Privates of the Royal Horse and Foot Artillery. Pages 8 - 361816MINT 16/112

Waterloo Medal Book. Name and rank of officers and men. Royal Foot Artillery. Pages 37 - 38. 18161816MINT 16/112

Waterloo Medal Book. Name and rank of officers and men. Royal Artillery Drivers. Pages 42 - 57. 1816

This link is to the main National Archives Catalogue page. It might be worthwhile reading “British Army: Useful Sources for Tracing Soldiers” listed under “B” before you take any further steps.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ex.asp?j=1

Alan

[Pandabean]

Alan,

That is why I am wanting to search for a record for him. If there is none then I know that he more than likely didn't serve. I understand what your saying about the informants. The informant for William's death was the Poorhouse attendant. Unfortunately the poorhouse records for Inveresk have been lost.

I guess its like a 50:50 at the moment until another bit of evidence comes to light. If he did serve, I guess his sign up records would contain details of him and his parents?

I found another set of records to look at, WO10.


Commissary General of Musters Office and successors: Artillery Muster Books and Pay Lists

Covering Dates: 1708-1878

I guess I have to contact Kew to see if they can have a look for me.

Another thing that intrigues me is that they only had one son. From other research in my family this seems uncommon at this time frame.

[Pandabean]

I have checked the birth for the son William in 1814 and his father's occupation is a weaver. The father William was born in the 1770's somewhere in Scotland.

He married Elizabeth in 1804 but was rebucked and had to remarry in 1814 around the time of birth of their son. This would make William around 30-40 years old. Why wait 10 years to have children.

It does seem possible that he was away at the begining of the 1800s.

[Currie]

Andy,

So, now there’s a third occupation in the mix. Was weaving a normal sort of occupation in that area at the time? He’s possibly come out of the Army after quite a few years and is now a weaver. Was that a skilled occupation or was it something he could have picked up quickly. Is it possible he was a weaver beforehand or could some sort of injury have led him to an early discharge, a sedentary occupation, an early death? I’m just guessing.

What you say about the marriage and the reason for the absence of kids makes a lot of sense.

Here’s a bit of background reading that will give you an idea of the make-up of the Artillery, its numbers as a proportion and enlistment periods etc.

The United States Democratic Review, 1846, Pages 17 & 18.
http://www.google.com.au/books?id=MFdJAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA17

Annals of British Legislation, 1862, Page 548.
http://www.google.com.au/books?id=K7kKA ... =RA5-PA548

Alan

[Russell]

Hi Alan

Weaving was not an occupation that anyone could just pick up after a few instructions.
He probably learned from helping his father while a child and may have given it up to enlist in a local militia or join the army. In the early 1800's handloom weaving was still a fairly vibrant trade. Setting up as a weaver required a large capital investment building a loom. If he left the army he might have had some severance pay or been a Chelsea pensioner - if he had been wounded and invalided out. That would give him some income to set up in his old trade. But the problem would still be one of building up contacts and orders from the weaving middle men and agents. I don't think the pension was particularly generous.
The next stage in a weavers life was the advent of mechanised weaving in the mid 1800's which threw lots of them out of work. The number of ex-weavers who ended up as ordinary labourers must be enormous. The commercial, mechanised weaving business only employed women and children with the occasional male as an overseer (and slave driver!)
So Andy the clues you have may all be relevant to the same person.
All you need is a few more hints and discoveries to make clear links.

Russell

[Pandabean]

Thanks guys.

Alan, that second book looks interesting. I read a few snippets of it as I don't have time to read it all just now.

I just found on the NA site that they do search the WO10 records but it costs about £40 per list. I guess looking through them will provide me with conclusive proof as to whether he served or not.

Russel, I didn't realise weaving was that skilled.

[Currie]

Russell,

Thanks for that Weaving info.

Alan