Registration of death

[runepriest]

Hey all;

I am looking for the death registration, or certificate of death for a military man. He was born in Scotland, emigrated to Canada, and died in France.

He is not listed with SP, nor can I find him in our provincial vital stats.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?


Thanks in advance.


Brian

[Cathy]

Try CWGC

[Tracey]

Hello Brian

This is the link to http://www.cwgc.org/
If he died in active service he should be named on here, i think, so maybe worth a look if you havnt done so already, till someone comes along with a bit more knowledge on this subject.

This may also be helpful
viewtopic.php?t=8056

[Adam Brown]

You haven't provided any names or dates but if we are discussing a Canadian soldier of the First World War then you should do a search here to see if his attestation paper is available online.

http://collectioncanada.ca/databases/ce ... 0.01-e.php

Regards

Adam

[runepriest]

Yeah, I thought of that after the first response to my post

The man in question is Lance Sergeant David Hampton, 2nd Battalion, Alberta Regiment. Recipient of the Military Medal (I am looking into the possibility he may qualify for the Memorial Cross)

L/Sgt Hampton died 2 Sep 1918, somewhere in France; he is buried in Upton Wood cemetery.

I have his attestation papers, and all the info on the various commenorative sites for WW I.

He is the man that I was enquiring about re: F & F Light Horse for prior military service.

My questions are: 1. are there any muster rolls available for the F & F Light Horse? 2. Since my great uncles was born in Scotland, enlisted with the Canadian military, and died in France, where would his death certificate be? I have searched SP, and Provincial archives to no avail.


Thanks.


Brian

[Currie]

Hello Brian,

Birth, Marriage and Death registration systems are usually intended to record vital events which occur within a particular country. Generally speaking, as far as I am aware, there are no death certificates issued under those systems for soldiers who died on active service overseas. The available information about their death is usually only recorded on the various War Memorial and other commemorative sites and on their service record and associated papers.

A scenario of huge numbers of soldiers dying in a single day, many disappearing off the face of the earth never to be seen again, urgent burials in mass graves with only personal identification and belongings being collected and the general turmoil and the quite limited information often found in military files doesn’t really fit into a registration system designed for peacetime.

If however a soldier was wounded in France and died of his injuries in the UK, or if he otherwise died in the UK while a member of the military during wartime then his death should be registered as a death normally would be.

I’m not aware of anything available elsewhere that is similar to the Scottish war death records available on SP minor records service returns but then these aren’t actual death certificates, merely a list of deceased soldiers.

If he isn’t on the Scottish National War Memorial Roll of Honour maybe he is eligible to be there. I’m not sure about that but the qualifications appear to be:

"A member of the Armed Forces of the Crown or of the Merchant Navy who was either a Scotsman (i.e. born in Scotland or who had a Scottish born father or Mother) or served in a Scottish Regiment and was killed or died (except as a result of suicide) as a result of a wound, injury or disease sustained (a) in a theatre of operations for which a medal has been or is awarded; or (b) whilst on duty in aid of the Civil Power."

Re the F & F Light Horse.
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12593

According to regiments.org info

1891 1st Fifeshire Light Horse Volunteers
1893.04.01 troops reorganised in squadrons
1900 co-sponsored 20th (Fife and Forfar Light Horse) Coy, 6th (Scottish) Bn, Imperial Yeomanry
1901.05 amalgamated with 1st Forfarshire Light Horse, to form Fifeshire and Forfarshire Imperial Yeomanry

1891.12 1st Forfarshire Light Horse Volunteers
1893.04.01 troops reorganised in squadrons
1900 co-sponsored 20th (Fife and Forfar Light Horse) Coy, 6th (Scottish) Bn, Imperial Yeomanry
1901.05 amalgamated with 1st Fifeshire Light Horse Volunteers, to form Fifeshire and Forfarshire Imperial Yeomanry

1901.05 Fifeshire and Forfarshire Imperial Yeomanry
formed in four sqns and MG sec by amalgamation of 1st Fifeshire Light Horse Volunteers and 1st Forfarshire Light Horse Volunteers

So I suppose all that means that the Fife and Forfar Light Horse was actually the 20th (Fife and Forfar Light Horse) Coy, 6th (Scottish) Bn, Imperial Yeomanry.

Muster Rolls appear to have gone the way of the dinosaur before the F & F LH came on the scene. There are a number of research guides on this page, see in particular British Army: Soldiers' Discharge Papers, 1760-1913. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... ex.asp?j=1

For a small fee there appears to be a history available here and no doubt elsewhere http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... uth+africa

Hope this helps,
Alan

[Currie]

Back again Brian,

I almost forgot to mention that there’s information about the F&FLH in 19th Century British Library Newspapers temporarily available here http://access.gale.com/newstrial/

Search for Fife Forfar and you’ll find articles in the Glasgow Herald 22 Feb, 28 Feb, and 8 Mar 1900 regarding their departure and travel to South Africa as well as other articles. Adding Light or Horse to the search doesn’t necessarily improve the results.

Just to clarify what I was trying to say regarding the Muster Rolls was that they seem to have gone out of use before your fellow would have become a member of the F&FLH.

Alan

[runepriest]

Hi Allan:

Quite a bit of information there

I wasn't sure what the procedure was regarding military deaths. Upon closer examination of his parents headstones in Brandon, Manitoba (my hometown, actually), I found he is listed on the stone, but no further details are there.

I think I may have to look deeper into the history of the F&F Light Horse (just for the read, it seems rather interesting )

L/Sgt David Hampton is on the Edzell memorial for the Black Watch :
http://www.royalhighlanders.co.uk/edzell.htm

I don't know exactly what the Black Watch was, but I think that might be another road to pursue.

As for the newpaper link, it asked for a password, which I obviously do not have.

Thank you for all the help that you, and others, have suggested here. It seems that when you find the one ancestor that you really want to find, up pops this brick wall. Just another day in the life of a genealogist

Thanks again


Brian

[LesleyB]

Hi Brian
http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk/index/hi ... d-research

As for the newpaper link, it asked for a password, which I obviously do not have.

The password should be on the page that Alan provided the link to:
http://access.gale.com/newstrial/

Best wishes
Lesley

[Adam Brown]

L/Sgt David Hampton is on the Edzell memorial for the Black Watch :
http://www.royalhighlanders.co.uk/edzell.htm

I don't know exactly what the Black Watch was, but I think that might be another road to pursue.

Brian

The Black Watch reference at the top of this web page is a bit of a red herring, it is the website rather than anything to do with the war memorial.

See here for photograph of the name panels

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1394

Note also there is an Edzell Boer War Memorial.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=2312

With Hampton serving in the F&FLH (IY) in the Boer War he may have served alongside the Tpr W A MacNab listed since he was in the Imperial Yeomanry?

Adam