WW2 Navy Hat?

[Pandabean]

I was digging through some of my photos and came across a chap wearing the hat below. I know it is some kind of Navy hat, I was wondering if anything can be read from the photo as to whether it was Merchant Navy or Royal Navy?

Again I think this may be one of my Johnston lot. No other information is in the photo such as ranks, he is wearing a dark overcoat with a white shirt and tie underneath.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52753575@N07/5346311681/

Cheers,
Andy

[Rockford]

Hi Andy,

The badge looks like one that I saw mentioned in a discussion on another forum - now if I could just find the site...

Something is stirring in the old grey cells about this looking like a Petty Officer's badge - an example of which is here http://www.blightymedals.co.uk/ww1ww2-r ... -415-p.asp

I also recall some discussion about the badge being red, which might be why it isn't standing out in the photo.

I'll repost if I find it!

Best wishes

Brian

[Rockford]

Hi Andy,

Found it! Was mentioned on Rootschat in the midst of a fairly long thread restoring a family photograph, where someone indicates that acting petty officers from 'the supply branch' had a red badge until confirmed, see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.ph ... 654.0.html

There is also another thread where a moderator has posted this link http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Badges/Ratings.html
which look very like your man's badge. If he is a PO, there would have been a big badge on his arm too, although his overcoat is probably obscuring it.

Hope this helps, although I stand to be corrected!!

Brian

[Montrose Budie]

Rockford's image is pretty powerful evidence that this man was an RN Petty Officer !

mb

[Pandabean]

Thanks again. So it would be that he was an acting Petty Officer seeing as the image of the badge looks dark?

So this would have been the RN instead of the Merchant Navy. I take it there is nothing similar to the Seaman's Pouches available for the RN & that their records are also closed off similar to the WW2 Army Records?

[Rockford]

Hi Andy,

I'm not sure and you would need someone with more expertise to confirm it. Given the information I posted, I think he could either be an acting PO or a PO in the parts of the service shown on my second link, which clearer shows a red badge, but doesn't mention any acting element of the post.

I can't believe that we don't have a sailor in our midst!

Best wishes

Brian

[bleckie]

Hi Andy

royal Naval personel get a copy of there record on leaving the service.
I have my late uncles service record from the fifties and sixties
Yours Aye
BruceL

[Heilanman]

Now a Royal Navy man in your midst!!

This is a photo of a red Cap badge with King's Crown.

The Fore and aft rig, with peaked cap, red badge and black buttons on jacket (men not dressed as seaman) was worn by Artificer Apprentices, 5th Class Artificers, members of the Sick Berth Branch (SBA) and those of the S & S (Supply and Secretariat) Branch - Cooks, Stewards, Writers, Stores Assistants up to and including Leading Rate. Leading Rate = Foul Anchor on Left Arm.

Artificer Apprentices and Artificers (5th class Leading rate - and 4th Class Petty Officer Rate) did not wear any "Trade" Badges on their Right arm, all the others did.

Acting Petty Officers of those branches wore a Petty Officers Cap Badge, gilt buttons on jacket and uniform.

Acting Petty Officers of branches in Square Rig(bell bottoms and round hat no peak!) remained in Square Rig until confirmed in the Rate. They nevertheless moved into the POs' Mess.

Hope this helps!. (ex RN Chief Electrical Artificer) 1951-1975.

[Billgen]

Further to that Heilanman - during WW2 the ratings mentioned in Fore and Aft rig wore red cap badges - Square Rig (sailors) only had 'H.M.S.' cap-tallies(ribbons) and all wore black hats - the white was withdrawn so as not to attract any attention to light objects. Naturally this was to do with security, and the safety of personnel. Black hats were the standard norm right into the 1950s. White cap-covers were introduced so that one could wear the same hat in winter and summer.

Billgen