Can anyone identify this uniform?

janis1954 · Post by **janis1954** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:46 pm

My father gave me an old photograph of someone in uniform. I don't know anything about military matters.

At the moment I'm not looking to identify the person but if anyone can help me identify the uniform, rank(?) and possible era I would be really grateful.

The photo can be viewed here (I hope) - I'm not sure how this forum works.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-827

Thanks.

Janis

url added by marilyn

Rach · Post by **Rach** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:55 pm

Sorry, I can't help with the identification. If you think it is a uniform that could have been worn around WW1 your could try posting the photo on the 1914-1918 Great War Forum. They were very, very helpful when I posted a soldier's photo on there recently and I had an identification within 24 hrs. As a result I was able to put a name to the person.

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:01 am

It doesnt look to me like a WWI uniform unless it is of a ceremonial nature.

The other thing that strikes me is the full set (beard) usually only colour sergeants or such were allowed beards, and there seems to be a fair amount of braid. Attached to the sash by lanyard there appears to be a whistle, perhaps he is a NCO (Sergeant). He also appears to be wearing boots covered by the trouser legs, and not cavalry style knee high boots although this may mean nothing. Even though the image magnifies very well, I cant make out if it is a soft cap he is holding in his right hand. The braiding on his lower sleeves appears identical on each arm so it is possibly a ceremonial uniform, or one worn by soldiers prior to the introduction of general purpose combat uniforms. Sorry this doesnt help much with his regiment.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:42 am

Hi Janis
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

I know next to nothing about uniforms, so this is not an informed statement, just a reaction to the picture - could the man in uniform be from somewhere other than UK? The dress just looks a bit "exotic" to me, initial reaction made me think Russia or somewhere.... I guess its the beard too that is suggesting that.

As Rach suggested, the folk on the great war forum are really knowledgeable and helpful with this kind of thing, so worth trying there as well:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/
(web site seems very slow to load at the moment, hope it is working OK soon)
Best wishes
Lesley

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:13 am

Lesley must have been reading my mind after posting my thoughts. I was also thinking along the lines of a foreign (non UK) army. I was even thinking of some of the US Civil war (pre and post) regiments or a bit later as they also often had some elaborate uniforms, not just the blue and the grey as one thinks. It is the beard that puzzles me! Perhaps our DWW could help with this one

IanS · Post by **IanS** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:08 am

Hi, I came across this site, which has 2 very similar looking uniforms which date abt. 1860's. However, as I have absolutely no military uniform experience whatsoever, it could be standard infantry dress (or undress!) for certain ranks.

http://www.journal67.freeserve.co.uk/homepage.htm

Scroll down to NINETEENTH CENTURY BRITISH AND INDIAN ARMIES AND THEIR SOLDIERS

Then to the 1840-1920 period.

Major General John William Hoggan, CB,17th Punjab Infantry, Colonel of the 25th (Punjab) Bengal Native Infantry, and Bengal Staff Corps, CDV, (Captain in Photograph, 25th (Punjab) Bengal Native Infantry)

Major Edward Robert Bigsby Barnes and Family, 35th (Royal Sussex) Regiment of Foot. (Index of British or Indian Army Soldiers and British Women of the Barnes and Carnegy Families)

I'm sorry I was unable to give links directly-wouldn't work. Beware there are 2 or more Ed.Rob. Bigsby Barnes photographs, it is the 35th Royal Sussex that gives the similar uniform (family photograph)

Post by **emanday** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:18 am

Can't help thinking that his sword looks more like a Naval officer's sword than army. The full set face furniture would be understandable then.

However, the uniform isn't one I've seen in old Navy photos. Very confusing.

Whatever - the sword would certainly indicate an officer.

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:30 am

Hi Ian
Good finds!
Found the same chaps elsewhere:
Major General John William Hoggan, CB,17th Punjab Infantry, Colonel of the 25th (Punjab) Bengal Native Infantry, and Bengal Staff Corps, CDV, (Captain in Photograph, 25th (Punjab) Bengal Native Infantry)
http://members.dca.net/fbl/phoggan.html

Major Edward Robert Bigsby Barnes,
37th (The North Hampshire) Regiment of Foot,
and 35th (Royal Sussex) Regiment of Foot,
(Lieutenant, 37th Ft. in the photograph of the portrait.)
http://members.dca.net/fbl/barneserb.html

Major Edward Robert Bigsby Barnes,
35th (Royal Sussex) Regiment of Foot,
and Family taken at Curragh Camp, Kildare, Ireland in 1873.
http://members.dca.net/fbl/barnesfam.html

Best wishes
Lesley

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:33 am

Good to see that others are contributing to queries such as this

The problem with demonstrating some knowledge of similar situations is that you then gain the reputation of being an (dreaded word) expert

.

I'm not

But I do know a bit about Scottish regiments and their uniforms, which also means that I know a wee bit about where to look for British army material in general.

I'd noted this thread but hadn't responded as I couldn't for the life of me identify the uniform, - my general reaction being that it wasn't British army, and maybe not army at all, with just a wee niggle at the back of my mind about the 19th century volunteers etc., but then their uniforms were closely controlled by the army HQ in Horseguards in London !!

The Indian Army, however, fits perfectly, their officers' uniforms in general being more decorative and extravagant than those of the British Army.

BTW, the Indian Army only came into being in 1860, after the Indian Mutiny. Prior to that the armed forces were those of the Honourable East India Company (HEIC), - up to 1857, that is. Quite what happened between then and 1860 I know not, as I'm no expert

David

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:04 am

David

My fault for transposing your knowledge of Scottish regiments to the general UK army

An easy trap to fall into I suppose. (my excuse and I am sticking to it

)

I have thought perhaps that the gentleman in the picture may not be attached to an army, but perhaps some militia or even bands. But I had a look at some uniforms of the US in the 1800's but cant identify the uniform, but of course that means nothing. There are probably more knowledgeable member is this field around.