William McCormick, Scots Guards and in South Africa

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:17 am

Hi all,

I don't know what it is, but I have great difficulty navigating TNA Kew, so I am hoping someone can help me and maybe turn up something for this ancestor, my gg grandfather William McCormick (McCormack). I have similar problems with other ancestors...but William is the concern for this post.

I will try to give as complete a review of William's history in and out of the army, from what I have gathered through my research (and from a LOT of help from people here).

William McCormick was born in 1864 in Glasgow. In March 1886, according to his mother's poorhouse records, William was serving in the Scot's Guards in Dublin. By November 1887, William had left the army (three weeks prior to the date of the poorhouse record) and was back in Glasgow.

In the 1891 census William is not with any family members...he may be in Glasgow somewhere but I have yet to find him. I speculated he went back to the army, but I don't know.

In 1893 he married Helen Gordon in Glasgow. Occupation was given as slater's labourer, so not in the army. He continued in this occupation until 1900 when his fourth child was born.

Then in the 1901 census he is not with the family. His father's poorhouse record for that year in May states William is in South Africa with the Scot's Guards. He was back in January 1902, (well, assuming wife Helen didn't get lonely!

) as fifth child Edward was born in the September of that year, and his occupation is back to being a slater's labourer.

So, basically it seems clear that William served with the Scot's Guards at various times. Yet I can't find any mention of him online at TNA, nor at any other site which holds records for the Boer War or Scot's Guards.

Can anyone please help?

Nina

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:13 am

Hi Nina

I'm not much help with the military bits. From the chronology it does seem odd that he would leave the service only to return a short while later. You may want to consider have someone search the records at Kew for you to try and follow his military career (if the records survive that is!) I had one in this time period and was able to get quite a bit of background on his military activities.....just had to pay someone to get it for me though

Didn't know if you'd tried out the new ancestry indexes for the 1891 census. Since you can search on occupation I put in reasonable ranges on age and "slater" in the occupation category and there was this one record:

Name: William McCormick
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil parish: Glasgow Chalmers
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 24 Young St
Occupation: Slater Unemployed
ED: 10
Page: 17 (
Household schedule number: 82
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1891_255
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Durie 3
Elizabeth Durie 9
Helen Durie 29
Helen Durie 6
Robert Durie 1
William Durie 30
William McCormick 25

I wonder if the Durie family means anything to you? Or if it's possible William was in Calton district?

Not much help but I'm trying!
Jean

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:39 am

Hi Jean,

Thanks for looking for William on the 1891. I do not have access to ancestry.com etc so it was great you could do that for me.

I can't see a connection to the Durie name in my family, and the one possible marriage was in Ayr "William Drury to Ellen Irvine". Nothing that rings a bell there for me.

However, William's mother was living at 35 Young Street in the 1891 with William's older widowed sister Catherine Lorimer. So maybe he needed a place to stay and the sister or mother knew someone in their street with room.

Nina

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 am

JustJean wrote:From the chronology it does seem odd that he would leave the service only to return a short while later.

That may not be so odd. There may well have been a call up of those with recent military service to serve their country again, or a call for volunteers and he felt well qualified with his previous military service.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **AnneM** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:04 am

Hi Nina

My own experience is that the names of individual sodjers are not indexed after about the middle of the C19 but if you know which regiment someone was in you can search the box of discharge papers and get his details. I also believe from DWW that there are other records, which a professional would know about, which are less obvious but give additional information.

Anne

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:26 am

Anne,

All I know of William is what is written above. I do not know his exact regiment, just that he was in the Scot's Guards. And of course being in Australia, I can't search the box for myself. And presently I have reduced income so I can't hire a researcher. Oh well, thanks for the reply anyway.

Nina

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:26 am

Nina

But you do know his exact regiment, - see http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/guards/f-3SG.htm , but neither the 1st or 2nd battalions appear to have been in Dublin in 1886 ..... see http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/guards/f3sg-1.htm and http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/guards/f3sg-2.htm .

At some time in the future, just when Ah dinna ken, he will appear on the TNA index.........

David

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:49 pm

thanks David, I meant I didn't know his exact battalion I suppose. I get mixed up with the terms.

I notice the first battalion was in Dublin in 1881. I am wondering if Willliam joined back then, and then left rather early, not telling his parents....but of course just a guess.

Nina

Post by **joette** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:56 pm

My Grandfather served in the army first in the Boer War(lied about his age)Then in the SA Police & then home to Penicuik.He was on the first ship out to France in 1914 despite being a Coal-Miner which was a reserved occupation & I know he didn't volunteer.
We have his army discharge papers & pay book.There is no mention on either about his Boer/Gold Coast exploits just simply something like" 12 years & so many days under active service &so many in reserve.
He must have been a less than exemplary soldier-he was not one to keep his opinions to himself & refused to guard women & children in the Camps they had & was less than complimentary about many of his "superiors".
There is a list of his promotions/demotions & always for insubordination.
Yet his CO took my Dad under his wing when doing his National Service & spoke of his then deceased Father in glowing terms as a man of principle.
I can find nothing in Kew about him & suspect that his records may have been bomb damaged-he himself survived the Clydebank Blitz despite refusing to go into the Shelters & would stand outside his Close shouting abuse at the Bombers.
So maybe your ancestor was also called back to service when his Country needed him or if there was no other work around.
I know my Grandpa served in both Boer Campaigns the 2nd he was recalled I think.

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:09 pm

Thanks joette,

Yes I thought they would have called him back for service if needed. I just can't find any records belonging to him. I thought it was only WW1 records destroyed in the blitz?

There has to be some record of him serving somewhere...I will live in hope!

Nina