East Poorhouse, Dundee

[Orlaith17]

I recently discovered my grandfather's sister died in East Poorhouse, Dundee, in 1916. She was married, and had 6 children, all of whom died in infancy/childhood. One of her children died after her own death. Her husband informed her death, and the death certificate shows a home address for both, as well as military information for him (Royal Highlanders). But her death was in this poorhouse. I can't find anything online except architect building plans. Anyone any idea about this place? Why would she be in there if she had a child, a home address and presumably a husband serving in WW1? Any history/information will be gratefully received.

[StewL]

As far as I'm aware, the wives of British soldiers in WWI did not receive an allotment as such from their husbands pay. They were left to support themselves while their husbands were away in the trenches or wherever. There was no automatic allotments made.
So if they did not have work skills or if they had very young children, they were virtually on their own! As often they would would be living away from their own families, they were often not a source of assistance.
It is only relatively recently (late 60's very early 70's) that service wives over here in Australia were automatically given a part of their husbands pay. I even recall signals to the effect that some wives were destitute!

[Currie]

Hello Orlaith,

The cause of death may give a clue as to why she was there when she died.

There appears to be surviving admission records only from 1856 to 1878 and from 1901 to 1908. http://www.fdca.org.uk/FDCADundeeEastPoorhouse.html

I couldn’t find much general information in Parliamentary Papers for 1916 except for short reports about the lunatic wards which held about 40 each of males and females. There’s mention of the sleeping accommodation being in a contracted state due to the poorhouse being largely used as a War Hospital.

In 1910 there was a Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress and there’s much statistical information from that. The Governor had a few words to say to the Commission.

STATEMENT OF EVIDENCE BY MR J. CHISHOLM, GOVERNOR OF THE EAST POORHOUSE AND HOSPITAL, DUNDEE.
1. My experience in Poor Law work began in 1887, or twenty years ago; first, as Clerk for nearly two years at the poorhouse of the Barony Parish, Glasgow; second, Outdoor Assistant Inspector of Poor with the said parish thirteen years; third, Assistant Governor at the said poorhouse eighteen months; and fourth, Governor of the East Poorhouse, Dundee, five years.
2. Having been only five years resident in Dundee, I cannot familiarly speak of the social and industrial conditions of the parish, but, so far as my observations go, I think the jute mills provide the principal industry. Generally speaking, work seems to be scarce, particularly for those who have not been accustomed with mill-work.
3. I may at once state that the method of administering relief in this parish appears to me to be in strict accordance with the Poor Law Act and the rules of the Local Government Board.
4. Although the system so prescribed is by no means faultless, it seems to me that, if Parish Councils adhered strictly to the proper carrying out of the Poor Law Act, and the general rules now existing for their guidance in administering relief, pauperism would not have increased so rapidly as has been experienced during recent years.
5, Indoor relief alone should be offered to those whose habits are known to have been worthless or bad. On the other hand, those who are considered respectable, provided their circumstances and surroundings are favourable, should be placed on the outdoor roll.
6. Although Scottish independence is, I believe, fast dying out, yet many deserving applicants for relief would almost starve rather than go to the poorhouse.
7. The classes of persons applying for relief are chiefly: —(a) those disabled by old age or physical infirmity; (b) widows with young families; (e) deserted wives and children; (d) women with illegitimate children; (e) children whose parents are in prison, and (f) persons requiring medical treatment.
8. Intemperance is, I believe, one of the chief causes of pauperism. Nearly 3,000 persons per annum are admitted to this poorhouse, of whom, I believe, 70 per cent are addicted to excessive drinking.
9. Indolent and thriftless people are constantly applicants for parochial relief—people who have never honestly endeavoured to live decently or do work, even if they had the opportunity. A very large proportion of poorhouse inmates consists of absolute loafers—men who, when not chargeable on the rates, maintain themselves by begging or stealing.
10. There is also a fair proportion of women with illegitimate children, and women and children who have been deserted, constantly to be found among poorhouse inmates. Cases of desertion — frequently matter of arrangement between a worthless husband and often an equally worthless wife—steadily increase and form one of the special causes of pauperism.
11. Under the Board of Supervision, I think that members of Parochial Boards almost invariably were men of independent position, or at any rate were men who had more leisure at their disposal than have a large percentage of the parish councillors of to-day. Now too much of the socialistic element seems to predominate, and a fair minority of councillors consists of the working class, who cannot possibly afford to give either the tune or the attention necessary for the proper discharge of matters connected with the administration of Poor Law work.
12. The problem of how to deal with able-bodied persons is a difficult one to solve. If they are given a claim to parochial relief, Parish Councils will find it a hard task to discriminate between those who ought to be refused relief and persons who, though able-bodied, may be on the verge of starvation. I am of opinion, however, that the majority of able-bodied persons who choose to stoop to the indignity of becoming applicants for parish relief are people who do not really want to work, hence the necessity of finding some other means than the machinery of Poor Law to deal with them.
13. In administering relief I am of opinion that in cities where the population is large and congested the parish should be divided into several districts. Each district should be under a superintendent with the necessary staff required to adequately carry on the work. All officers connected with each district should be responsible to the district superintendent alone, whose offices should be in his own district. And all the district superintendents should be responsible to, and under the sole control of, a chief inspector of poor.
14. With regard to reforms in the law, I beg to submit the following suggestions:—
(a) All disputes between parishes should be settled by the Local Government Board.
(b) A husband deserting his wife or family should be dealt with by the procurator-fiscal, and the limit of sentence, under the present law, should be extended.
(c) Proprietors of model lodging-houses should his compelled to keep a special register, containing full particulars of the lodgers, and those found to have given a false name, or made incorrect statement, should be prosecuted. This system, if carefully carried out, would greatly help Poor Law Authorities in tracing deserters.
(d) Parish Councils should have control of the children of dissolute parents.
(e) Parish Councils should have power to remove to the hospital poor persons who are without means of support and require care.
(f) Accommodation for poor persons suffering from phthisis should be provided by the health authorities,
(g) An able-bodied person should have no right to insist on relief; but Parish Councils might have power to grant relief when they consider it a special necessity.
(h) Power should be obtained to detain in the poorhouse for longer periods, the class who are now known as "Ins and Outs."

Hope that’s interesting, if a little long-winded,
Alan

[Currie]

Hello Stewie,

There’s an interesting notice in the Glasgow Herald, March 17, 1915. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OM ... ives&hl=en

It seems that there was a separation allowance paid by the Government to soldier’s wives and children but that it was only paid if the soldier made “the usual allotment” from his pay and it looks as though that was voluntary. So I guess that the family got the allotment plus the separation allowance when the soldier left home if he had signed the paperwork.

I’ve read somewhere that WW1 British Soldiers were grossly underpaid so the married ones probably didn’t have much left for smokes after the spouse’s allotment had been deducted. But I guess that if he didn’t make an allotment then that would probably be regarded as desertion. I wonder if the army would have put any pressure at some level on someone in that situation.

All the best,
Alan

[StewL]

Hi Alan
Thanks for that information. The problem was that it was voluntary, and too many servicemen thought the money was better in their pockets for their smokes and drink and other stuff, rather than send it home to their wives.
This was also the situation in the Australian Navy (I can speak for them ) until they brought in compulsory allotments to their wives (75% of their pay if I recall). Some older sailors told me that some matelots didn't send a penny to their wives when they went on overseas deployments, they would stop it as soon as they left Australia. I am not speaking about the older sailors who told me, they just knew that a lot of their married shipmates would stop the payments when they went overseas.
As previously said, I even recall seeing signals about wives in Australia being destitute and the navy having to step in and assist them. Although I do believe the navy took a dim view of those persons, and some "harsh" words were exchanged to try and make them see the light.

[Orlaith17]

Thank you so much to everyone for the information. In particular to Currie (Alan) a big thank you for the informative post. I had trouble reading the writing on the death certificate showing the cause of death, but have now deciphered it. Cause of death was "chronic alcoholism, cystitis". I researched further and found that gangrenous cystitis could indeed be fatal and a direct result of excessive alcoholic intake. The person concerned and her husband were both employed in the jute mills, though I don't know if she was working at the time; I doubt it. They had the heartbreak of 5 of their children dying before the age of 3, and the 6th dying at 9 years old. Now I know the cause of death, and combining that with your information, it's possible I guess that she was admitted for medical care.
This is a wonderful resource, thanks again everyone.