Can some-one please translate ?

[trish58]

Alan Three cheers for your post it was great, whilst people say they are happy with the cost they have incurred, as I am, I know I could have saved a lot too, I am not complaing of the cost I am very pleased and excited at the family I have found on SP, thanks to the help of TS, but I can do it much cheaper on Ancestry, having said that I did have to come to TS for the transcription on my 4x Gr Grannies occupation

I am amazed at the response to my original post and how much converstion it has generated through to "hiring" out Mary's Son, (who knows he may like the idea)

This is the reason I love TS so much, kind, helpfull, friendly, and always so positive
Keep up the great work and a special thanks to all the moderators for their hard work

Trish

[DorothyCoe]

Alan, I'm delighted to read your post. You have given a lot of structure to thoughts that were swirling round my mind even as I tried to keep my Alexanders and Williams in the right order in all my families

I hate it when new people join something I've been part of for a while and then do nothing but criticise, so I worried a little bit about my comments there, but your post implies that you've been around here long enough and that my dissatisfactions with SP are not to do with my novice status.

It seems to me that TS is "staffed" by excellent volunteers (?) whose great commitment is very evident even on such a short acquaintance as I have with the site. People here are exceptionally friendly, helpful and surprisingly prompt in their responses to queries, so I would hate anyone here to think that a criticism of the workings of SP was any sort of reflection on TS's regular posters, helpers and moderators. It's not. I've now read a lot of posts in various threads here and have nothing but admiration for TS members.

I hadn't even realised that SP was a profit-making company. I'm not sure what the relationship is politically between TS and SP... I see that at least one moderator here attends SP meetings. I guess that TS representatives at SP meetings may be there more or less as guests, and I wonder how much influence they have over decisions regarding policy and profit. Even if they were to pass on trends and general opinions from TS, SP are in the fortunate position of being the providers for a never-ending stream of eager new clients. They really need not pay too much attention to the concerns of Alan and me.

I suppose I'd like someone wiser than me to explain the advantages of having access to a valuable national resource such as the GROS, clearly superior to that in many other countries, administered by a profit-making business.

Dorothy
PS I didn't come here to make trouble - honest!

[AndrewP]

Hi Dorothy,

To clear up some of the points that you have raised...

To quote from the foot of the homepage of the ScotlandsPeople website: ScotlandsPeople is operated as a partnership of the General Register Office for Scotland, The National Archives of Scotland and the Court of the Lord Lyon, enabled by Scotland On Line.

The prices charged and main policies are set out in Statutory Instruments raised in the Scottish Parliament, so the ScotlandsPeople User Group has no influence on these high-level matters.

The members of the ScotlandsPeople User Group who are also members of TalkingScot (and/or other genealogy forums) are not on the User Group to represent TalkingScot (or the other genealogy forums). They are there as individual users of ScotlandsPeople's website.

The remit of the User Group is found on SP's website at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=551&973

All the best,

AndrewP

[DorothyCoe]

Thank you Andrew

I had read all that, and looked at the latest minutes of the Usergroup, which were largely impenetrable to this outsider.

I'm afraid I'm still left with some big questions, but I don't want to take up people's time which would be better spent helping folks in a more constructive way, so I'll carry on watching for a while and the answers may become clearer.

Thanks to those who've responded here, and also pm'd me.
Dorothy

[LuAnn]

Just a thought.
Perhaps the dedicated members of Talking Scot could transcribe an index of some sort available free on line. I'll tell you why I suggest this. Online in Canada there is a site where several census have been transcribed by volunteers. Some people transcribe some proof read, there are links to some early military records and you can leave your name if you are researching a person at the bottom of the index page that your person is located on. There is a split screen that links to the actual census image . The site is very good, but it doesnt have a query function for general discussion as this site does. Given the physical size of our country and the fact that the National archives are in Ottawa and that holds the census info and there ar provincial archives that hold the births deaths etc. an online access is almost essential. The census site is automatedgenealogy.com and they have started to index the 1851 census 1901 and 1911 are pretty much done. Births and deaths are being handled by another group of volunteers wheo are indexing births and deaths and marriages etc on a separate site . A much easier job for us of course being a much younger country. Registrations of births deaths and marriages didnt start until I think the same year as confederation 1867. Im sure that the people at automatedgenealogy would be glad to make suggestions to the folks who maintain this site about persuing such an idea. Canadians being the friendly helpful bunch that we are , usually , on most occasions as long as we have our Tim Hortons coffee.
Best
Luann

[marilyn morning]

LuAnn wrote

Perhaps the dedicated members of Talking Scot could transcribe an index of some sort available free on line.

Hi LuAnn

The AG of TS will take your suggestion under consideration, but please remember we are all volunteers and some of us hold down full time jobs and there's only so many hours in a day. Over time we will be expanding our horizons.

For those of our members who need some further background of TS, please visit

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... x.aspx?815

http://davidlambertblog.com/?p=63

http://www.genopro.com/genealogy-links/ ... ngscot.com

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_ge ... otcom.html

When one thinks about all the FREE RESOURCES on the internet, a dent in the pocketbook spending money on Ancestry or SP seem minor in comparison. I'm personally grateful for a site such as SP considering what it would cost me to fly to Scotland and research their records in person or to hire a professional.

Regards
Marilyn

[Currie]

I'll apologise for this post in advance and for anything in it deemed inappropriate or untrue.

I think the FreeCen site is proceeding nicely enough and that any voluntary efforts would be better directed that way. It would be nice if http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ was extended to cover Scotland, but I doubt that GROS would allow something like that to happen. (Not to mention all those English BM&D index records available absolutely free on Ancestry right up to almost yesterday)

As far as flying to Scotland or hiring a professional is concerned I am only one of hundreds of thousands (millions probably) with Scottish roots for whom that is not even the remotest option.

At the risk of continueing to be a pain, the description in Andrew's post of the ScotlandsPeople operation (repeated in full below) sounds very warn and friendly and mysterious and patriotic and gives the impression almost that it's some sort of a charity:

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... aspx?r=541
About ScotlandsPeople
A partnership between the General Register Office for Scotland, the National Archives of Scotland, The Court of the Lord Lyon and Scotland On Line, ScotlandsPeople is the official online source of parish register, civil registration, census and wills & testaments records for Scotland.

But if you go to this site it cuts through the fog and spells it out as it is. I've posted this so that no one is under the illusion that it is anything more than a commercial monopoly.

http://www.scotlandonline.co.uk/AboutUs/CaseStudies
General Register Office for Scotland
In summer 2001 the General Register Office for Scotland (GROS) placed a tender in the European Journal seeking a business partner to develop an pay-per-view e-commerce web site which would allow customers to search and obtain genealogical information over the Internet. This project was a major expansion of an existing service that had been in operation since 1997. The stimulus for the expansion of the service was the increase in availability of digital assets resulting from the DIGROS project whereby all GROS births, deaths, marriages, OPR and census records – a store of around 50 million images – are being digitised.

http://www.scotlandonline.co.uk/AboutUs/
Over the years Scotland Online has deservedly earned the reputation for being a top quality provider of Internet-driven, IT based business solutions.
Since 1995 the company has expanded from an original team of four to over 45 staff operating from centres in both Dundee and Edinburgh, supplying a high level of quality managed services to over 2000 customers.
Scotland Online offers the full range of Internet based business solutions for customers across all sectors. Whether the requirement is for an off-the-shelf or bespoke solution Scotland Online’s products and services can assist its customers to increase their market share, reach their targets and meet their business objectives.
etc. etc.

Just a few comments regarding the User Group. I would hate to think that the User Group were there only to promote their own personal interests and nothing more. If that were the case the small number in the User Group would hardly be enough for either a good cross-section view on customers wants or for that matter for beta testing. The User Group terms of reference below directs that GROS and SOL WILL (not may) take into account the User Group advice etc. If they do not, how can the whole User Group thing be considered anything more than window dressing.

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=551&973
TERMS OF REFERENCE
Remit
To assist GROS and SOL in the future development and improvement of the ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk website and service by offering constructive advice on potential improvements that may be made to the website and the service that is provided to the website's customers. GROS and SOL will take into account the User Group's advice when proposing future enhancements to the website and service. Members may also serve as beta testers for new developments on the site.

It seems a strange mysterious and perverted arrangements that exists between The Scottish Government and ScotlandsPeople, Nothing is to do with anything else. I suppose that if something goes wrong with the service the Government partner blames Scotlandonline and if the fees are too high the blaming is reversed. I can't think of any other cases of Government price fixing where the public is the victin rather than the beneficiary.

So, it's the Scottish Parliament's fault. ScotlandsPeople are hiding behind the skirts (or kilts) of not only their monopoly but also behind those of the Parliament that created it.

That's all for now but I might think of something else if provoked.

Sorry again,
Alan

[LuAnn]

My apologies , it was never my intention to offend anyone or cast aspersions , it was just a thought that occured to me having been on another site. A feeble attempt at being helpful after the assitance that I have received from the folks on this site. As a newbie on the site I guess I was a little over enthusiastic. Will try harder to behave in the future
Best
LuAnn

[Currie]

LuAnn,
I can't find anything in your post for you to apologise to anyone about unless it's hiding from me. I thought it a fundamentally very good idea and I'm sure it was your intention that such a task if undertaken would be distributed over a much wider group than the inner circle at TS. But I think the FreeCen option is the better. Keep up the good work and don't bother behaving, there's enough of that going on here already.
All the best,
Alan

[Russell]

No worries LuAnn

We don't mind folk expressing an opinion provided that their method is not derogatory or inflammatory.

We're just pleased to have genuinely interested folk visit the site and participate in the fun.

It's amazing how quickly 'newbies' become experienced campaigners helping others based on their own, valued experiences ( i.e. costly mistakes which we all have made).

Russell