Occupations & Social Status

[SandySandilands]

My 4 x great grandfather was often recorded as a "quarry man" which for quite some time I assumed meant that he laboured in a quarry. Last year I discovered some documents which changed the impression I had of his working life, they were quotes from him for various projects which involved the building of roads and the construction of stone dykes - quite considerable sums of money were involved.

Later in life he became a grocer, I have discovered quite a lot of people took up this occupation in their later years.

I was wondering if occupations of the past had a different "social status" to what they do today? For instance, the 3 sons of the above gentlemen were a brassfounder, a cabinet maker and a skinner.

Would these occupations have had the same social status or would the occupation of the elder son (brassfounder) have been seen as a more presitigious one than that of the younger son (skinner)? Would their wages have varied greatly?

Is this type information recorded any where?

Hope this makes sense

Sandy

[Falkyrn]

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/Class.html

Will give you some insight into the matter

However you really need more information before the matter can be resolved. For example were they employees in these trades or were they employers - big difference. Another matter to resolve is just how accurate are the job descriptions are they spot on or have they been gilded a little ( or a lot ) by social climbing descendants.

[SandySandilands]

Thank you

...However you really need more information before the matter can be resolved. For example were they employees in these trades or were they employers - big difference.

The "quarry man" would appear to have been in partnership

Unfortunately, the brassfounder & cabinet maker died young.

The "skinner" went on to be a spirit dealer and also a woolsorter. He was definitely an employee c.1866 when he took part in a strike. A couple of years later he owned 8 properties -- his occupation at that time -- spirit dealer.

However you really need more information before the matter can be resolved. For example were they employees in these trades or were they employers - big difference. Another matter to resolve is just how accurate are the job descriptions are they spot on or have they been gilded a little ( or a lot ) by social climbing descendants.

Tell me about it. There's a genealogy of another branch of the family which I am sure will connect with my own at some point. The occupations of this family are definitely not as recorded in a well known "book", nor are they living in the locations that certain book states, nor were their "relationships" as that certain book records in concrete they were. Family history buffs beware the lies which lie in published genealogical bibles

[Montrose Budie]

In later censuses, - I can't recall for the moment which one was the first - 1891 or 1901?, - the occupation column shows whether the person was an employer, and, if so, how many people he employed.

mb

[Currie]

Wages and Earnings of the Working Classes, published 1867, may be useful and there are probably other publications scattered about in Google Books.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=9JYoAAAAYAAJ&pg=113

Alan

[SandySandilands]

Thanks MB & Alan.

That second link, Wages and Earnings of the Working Classes, published 1867, was very interesting indeed. Quite a difference in wages for various trades within the same industry, and wages also varied as per location.

Apparently Birmingham and Aston were to Brass what Sheffield was to steel, and could possibly have led to the connection my family has with these places.

I'm off to read some more

[littlealison]

Hello and thank you, Alan, for the book reference. I can read it but not download it unless I get a google account....but I found the glassmakers bit. I see they doubted the manufacturer's figures for the wages!

Any idea what would be the social status of a Publican in Dumbarton in 1841? He had a fulltime job as glassmaker too, and I have discovered that at the time the minimum needed to be a publican was a licence to sell booze from your front room. He may have had a pub.........not known.

(Off this thread but to Currie)
You gave a link to me on another thread, to a Scottish and Jacobite Glass book, which I can only see bits of - can you tell me if there is any more on: Verreville, Borron or Little? The paragraph you gave me means a lot more now - I''m investigating the early glass history in Glasgow.

[johnniegarve]

Alison, I presume Borron Street, near Port Dundas, is named for this glass connection? I have a book called "Glassmakers of Stourbridge & Dudley" by Jason Ellis, I had hoped to find something on my own lot who came up to Glasgow from Dudley, originally from Edinburgh, but no joy. Interesting tome though, you're very welcome to it but couldn't find your names in the index!

Johnnie

[littlealison]

Yes, Borron Street is named for the Borrons, proprietors of the Glasgow Glass Works in Port Dundas and Anderston....and there's another one in Newton-le-Willows in Lancashire. WG Borron's son went there - both were sometime partners of my gggrandfather John Little.

i have just been given this book for Christmas! But our only connection is that we visited the Red House cone in November - if your family was in glass in the 19C this is an eyeopener and a fascinating place to see (Built about 1795, and operating until 1936) - so really just the chapter on that site was of interest.
Our names wouldn't be in there - the family came from Glasgow to Dumbarton to Glasgow to Newton....and then to Dublin and South Africa.

The Glasgow Directories online have been very useful to me in finding people, but I'm afraid I don't really know any more about Birmingham. i've seen things about South Leith and glass online too.

Back to social status....I think the actual income is a good indicator - but didn't the status of those in 'trade' change considerably during the years of the Victorian industrial era?

[Currie]

Hello Alison,

I think that for some having a publicans licence was probably like having a license to print money but for most, especially the small timers, it probably wasn’t.

This was the Scottish and Jacobite Glass book link referred to. It was published 1937 so there are only snippets. When you search within a book I think you are given a maximum of only three snippets at a time. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PqZ ... pyvDw&cd=2

Searching within the book for “verreville” gives you snippets from pages 133 and 135, and what appears to be an illustration on page 134. http://books.google.com.au/books?ei=AJM ... rch_anchor

There’s mentions of Borron on pages 136 and 150.
http://books.google.com.au/books?ei=AJM ... rch_anchor

And for Little only on page 150.
http://books.google.com.au/books?ei=AJM ... rch_anchor

It seems, apart from 150, the action for you is mostly around the mid 130’s. It’s possible to collect snippets and lines of text and assemble them into pages, but they are often incomplete, and can take a fair while. I’ll have a go if you wish but will probably need an email address to send it to. It would be in the form of a Word document with text and images.

It appears there was a 1977 facsimile edition of the 1930’s original which is available used from various places.

All the best,
Alan