John G Carlisle - where was he born?

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LowlanderDaughter
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John G Carlisle - where was he born?

Post by LowlanderDaughter » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:09 am

I'm new to doing genealogy research. I can't find a birth record for my Great-Grandfather John G. Carlisle. He was born March 16, 1860. His daughter said he was born in the "Southern Uplands of Scotland or near the English town of Carlisle." I went on Scotlandspeople but couldn't find him using this spelling, and other ways to spell Carlisle. I tried the Ancestry.co.uk web site trying to find out if he was was actually born in Ireland, UK, Wales (or anywhere else). Without knowing his parent's names I don't know what to do. I don't know if he has brothers or sisters. The only thing my Great-Grandfather personally said about where he was from is "lowland Scotland" and that his parents were from "Scotland."

In 1889 he came to the US with his wife Margaret, daughter Maggie (Margaret), John and Andrew. Daughter Elizabeth chose to stay behind in Bo'ness with her maternal grandparents the Gardners. In 1909 when Elizabeth was 28 years old her mother made her come to the US. Elizabeth had a fiance' and really wanted to marry him, and was very bitter about coming, she never forgave her mother. Does this family story sound familiar to anyone living in Scotland?

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:38 am

Hi LowlanderDaughter,
Welcome to Talking Scot! [talkingscot]
Have you tried to find your great grandparents' marriage in Scotland? (I take it that they married before leaving). Do you know the surname of his wife Margaret?

I see a few likely candidates for John in the 1861 census, one with parents John and Elizabeth, that would fit with the naming pattern, but it would be best to find the marriage first and confirm who his parents were.

All the best,
Sarah

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:45 am

:roll: I don't know where my brain was... obviously, from what you said, Margaret's surname was Gardner! There is a marriage between John Carlisle and Margaret Gardner in 1879 in Bo'ness on Scotland's People. Sounds like the right one!

[cheers]
Sarah

P.S. Since they married in 1879, you can easily find them in the 1881 census with daughters Margaret and Elizabeth. From the birthplace John gives, it is clear he is the one I saw with parents John and Elizabeth... so you are off and running!

nelmit
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Post by nelmit » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:52 pm

:? A long shot but his mother appears to be Elizabeth Erskine who did marry John Carlisle.

Could this be the birth and the reason you can't find it?

ALEXANDER BROWN CARZILE ERSKINE Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth: 16 MAR 1860 Polmont, Stirling, Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Mother: ELIZABETH LIDDELL ERSKINE Family

Actually I've just noticed it's the same date as you gave for John's. :D

Regards,
Annette

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:23 pm

=D> Nice one, Annette!
No wonder he wasn't showing up! Although by 1861 they look like a married couple with just the one son, John. He must have been born before the marriage (if there was one). I hope it doesn't mean that the actual father was Alexander Brown :shock: With luck there will be an RCE on the birth record.

Cheers,
Sarah

nelmit
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Post by nelmit » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 pm

John and Elizabeth appear to have married in February 1861 and I see from somebody's research at Ancestry Elizabeth's mother's name was Marion Brown so who knows.

Interesting that he does have Carzile as part of his birth name so hopefully there will be an RCE that reveals all!

Regards,
Annette

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:47 pm

nelmit wrote:Interesting that he does have Carzile as part of his birth name so hopefully there will be an RCE that reveals all!
Indeed! Here we are all waiting anxiously until the work day is over in Oregon (another few hours to go, by then most of you folks in Scotland will be asleep!) :lol:

Regards,
Sarah

LowlanderDaughter
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Post by LowlanderDaughter » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:51 am

Sarah and Annette,

I feel really bad I didn't get back to this post I started. At first I didn't know how to use this web site, but now I know. To answer the question, yes, Alexander Brown Carzile Erskine was the original name of my Great Grandfather John G Carlisle.

Elizabeth Liddell Erskine is John G's mother. I have her name on James and Alexander's birth registries (John's younger brothers), and also her death certificate.

There isn't a correction at all on the left hand column of the birth registry. I think the reason for this is that John G was registerd in Polmont, Stirling. 11 months after he was born, his parents John and Elizabeth where married in Slamannan Stirling. John's younger brothers were born in Slamannan.

Thank you so much for your help. I really appriciate it.

Rhonda

williamsglm
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Re: John G Carlisle - where was he born?

Post by williamsglm » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:29 pm

Hi Rhonda i hope you are still connected to this post. I am currently researching Elizabeth Liddle Erskine and her son Alexander Brown Carlisle Erskine. I have found this post very interesting and informative but with as many answers i found it leads to so many more questions.

Here is what i have so far:

Alexander's birth cert in 1860 Polmont Stirlingshire states his mother is Elizabeth Liddle Erskine. Illegitimate

Isabella Erskine's birth cert in 1865 North Leith Edingburgh stating her mother is Elizabeth Liddle Erskine. Also Illegitimate
Isabella (Bella) Erskine (Reid) married James Symon. Her death cert in 1943 Polmont Stirlingshire stating her mother is Elizabeth Liddle Erskine who later married James Reid.

Elizabeth Reid (nee Erskine) death cert in 1920 Falkirk Stirlingshire states widow of James Reid and daughter of William Erskine & Isabella McIntyre.
Elizabeth Erskine's baptism records has not been found - she was born circa 1843 in either North Leith Edinburgh or Mossneuck Stirlingshire - census records differ.
Elizabeth Erskine & James Reid marriage cert in 1869 Falkirk states her parents are William Erskine & Isabella McIntyre.

Census records show James Reid & Elizabeth Erskine with Isabella and an adopted daughter Margaret Roughead.

The marriage that is previously stated in this blog between John Carlisle & Elizabeth Erskine in 1861 - there are 2 marriage certs for them one in Slamannan with notes in the first column im waiting to be deciphered and the other in Muiravonside. Both of these state Elizabeth Erskine's parents are James Erskine & Marion Brown. Different parents compared to the the link through Isabella Erskine above.

Im not really sure about any of this. Maybe you know a little more of the family history that might explain some of this.

Cheers Linda

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