Please can anybody help me with this Sheppard brick wall?

[bitkin]

wring???!!!

I meant to say "wrong"

[Jack]

Hi Sally, and of course Sally,

Just some idle thoughts...which somehow developed into questions...
I'll start off with that SHEPPARD may have been spelled in a variety of ways over the years.

Do you know for sure that May was born in Scotland?
Or is this an assumption because of the 1883 Greenock MC?

What was May's mother's name on her 1916 MC ?

Can you trace back with certainty from the present day that May's parents were,
Richard SHEPPARD & Catherine FEENEY ?
What were their ages, occupations, parents' names on the 1883 MC ?

Do you have May's DC ? Parents' names?

May i ask how you know that Richard was aboard HMS Pekin in 1901?
Just curious...!
--
A wee point on censuses;
The Richard SHEPHERD who Sally found in 1901 was recorded twice in 1881.
At home with wife Eliza Ann & family, and also as aboard his fishing boat, the "Friend".
--
1871 Grimsby.
Richard Shepherd 27, Fisherman, b London
Eliza Ann Shepherd 23, ------------b Anwick, Lincs. [parents ?John Wood Dodson & Ann Bellamy?]
Annie Mary Shepherd 1, ----------b Great Grimsby
Ann Dodson 20, visitor,---------- b Anwick, Lincs. [parents ?John Dodson & Ann Bellamy?]
--
1881 Grimsby.
Richard Sheppard, 36, Fisherman, b Old Bermondsey, London
Eliza A. Sheppard, 33, -------------b Anwick, Lincs.
Anne M. Sheppard 11
Mary L. Sheppard 9
Eliza A. Sheppard 6
Rose M. Sheppard 5
Ethel Sheppard 3
Alice Hatterfield 16, Servant,
Henry Dodson, apprentice, 19, Fisherman, b Heckington, Lincs. [parents ?Edwin Dodson & Sarah Pacey?]
George Dodson, apprentice, 17, Fisherman, b Heckington, Lincs. [parents ?Edwin Dodson & Sarah Pacey?]
-&-
1881 Grimsby.
Vessel "Friend"
Richard Shepherd, 36, Master, b Bermondsey, London.
Henry Dodson, 19, Fisherman, b Heckington, Lincs.
George Dodson, 17, Cook, b Heckington, Lincs.
--
1891 Grimsby.
Eliza Ann Shepherd 43, ---------b Anwick, Lincs.
Mary Lizzie Shepherd 19
Rose Martha Shepherd 15
Ethel Shepherd 13
George J Shepherd 9
Alice Shepherd 8
Richard Shepherd 6
Frank Shepherd 3
May Shepherd 3
--
What are the names of the children of Robert G. INNES & May SHEPPARD ?
Are any of the above familiar?
Jack

[marilyn morning]

A wee point on censuses;
The Richard SHEPHERD who Sally found in 1901 was recorded twice in 1881.
At home with wife Eliza Ann & family, and also as aboard his fishing boat, the "Friend".

Hi Jack,

Pardon me for butting in, but

This is the first time I've ever heard of someone being recorded twice in one day, so it caught my attention. Think of the possibilities

Richard was home for breakfast with Sally and on his fishing boat in the afternoon?

Very interesting find.....

Regards
Marilyn

[Jack]

Hi Marilyn,
Who's butting in! A very valid point - the possibilites!
But perhaps i'd better reply on the Census page.
See you over there...
Ta - Jack

[marilyn morning]

I'm right behind you Jack

Marilyn

[bitkin]

Hello again, and sorry for the delay in answering your kind responses. I can't believe how helpful you lot are!

First of all - Sally, I have looked at your find in 1901 very carefully and it fits in so many ways, but if this Richard is my Richard then as in Jack's findings of 1881, he again appears twice in the census. This brings me on to Jack's questions and findings, which I will answer as best as I can in order.
l. Yes, the spelling difference is a definite possibility.
2. I have no definite proof that May was born in Scotland, but certainly the family at some point originated in Greenock, Scotland. (My step mother,........from hell!.......... passed this information to my step sister, for whom I am doing this research, having spent three years on my own.)
3. on May's marriage cert (to Robert Gladstone Innes) there was only May's father, Richard Sheppard, Skipper RNR, both living at 133 Park Street, Cleethorpes, Grimsby.
4. No, there is no certainty about May's parents being Richard and Catherine Feeney, it was the Greenock connection that caught my eye, and I have serious doubts about it.
5. I cannot find either birth or death cert for May under Sheppard, but will try for Shepherd.
6. Finally - I found Richard on board HMS Pekin in 1901 under the Absent voters list of Grimsby. It is most DEFINITELY him, as his address is given as 133 Park Street, the same as on May's marriage cert, and the spelling in this case is Sheppard.

Marilyn - if this is the right man that shows up twice on two different censuses, then that is a double first for me too!!

All in all, I have to say that this Richard, born London, is looking very much like my man, however the Scottish connection has to be there somewhere, and it lurks around the Greenock area.
I have had little time this weekend, but will investigate what you lot have found tomorrow.

Thank you all so very much, and I will report on what I find!

(I am still puzzling over 1881 and 1901 - and love Marilyn's idea of Richard being home for breakfast then setting sail later in the day!)

Sally

[bitkin]

Hello, had a good trundle around in Ancestry, and had no luck so far with May Innes nee Sheppard - married to Robert Gladstone Innes, and who had one daughter, Joan Sheppard Innes.

However, tracking back with the Richard Shepherd that Jack found on several censuses, I found him in 1851 in Bermondsey aged 6 - in a workhouse, labelled "pauper", and with the correct spelling of Sheppard. I really really hope that this is the right line, because I think that he is going to be so interesting to research, discovering how he became a master mariner living in some comfort in Grimsby.

I do know that close relatives of my step mother (from hell) lived in Greenock, and that Donald Sheppard was a relatively famous gynaecologist in Scotland, but perhaps she was making assumptions that the Sheppards actually came from Scotland. I have discovered that the Innes side were Scottish, (prior to moving to Liverpool and then Hull)

My problem now is finding some sort of proof that this Richard is the one that I am looking for. Everything points to it being right, mainly cos there isn't anything else that comes even close to fitting!!
Anyway thank you again everyone for your cheerful help.
Sally
ps, I may come back with another query with the Innes side!!!

[marilyn morning]

Sally wrote

(I am still puzzling over 1881 and 1901 - and love Marilyn's idea of Richard being home for breakfast then setting sail later in the day!)

Hi Sally,

Its the only logical explanation to me


Regards
Marilyn

[Jack]

Hi Sally,
Now i don't know if this is the parents & siblings of Richard in Grimsby.
But no harm in having a note of them in case something connects in the future.
-----
WILLIAM SHEPHERD
MARY NIEL
Marriage: 22 DEC 1839, Saint James, Bermondsey, Surrey, England
-----
Father: WILLM. SHEPPARD. Mother: MARY.
~ children? ~
JAMES SHEPHERD - Christening: 01 AUG 1841, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
RICHD. SHEPPARD - Christening: 25 JUN 1843, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
RICHD. SHEPPARD - Christening: 06 JUL 1845, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
HANNAH SHEPARD - Christening: 06 FEB 1848, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
MARY ANN SHEPPARD - Christg: 28 OCT 1849, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
ELIZA SHEPHARD - Christening: 02 JUN 1850, Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London
======
Possibles below for four of the above children in 1851...no proof though.

1851 census (Surrey - St Mary Magdalen - Bermondsey)
Workhouse.
?? John Jas. SHEPPARD, pauper, 10, b. Bermondsey, Surrey.
?? Richard SHEPPARD, pauper, 6, b. Bermondsey, Surrey.

1851 census (Surrey - St Mary Magdalen - Bermondsey)
11 Cow Yard. [with a Thomas Hayward, 48, tanner, wife Sarah, 50, and four children]
?? Hannah SHEPPARD, visitor, 4, scholar, b. Bermondsey, Surrey.

1851 census (Surrey - St Mary Magdalen - Bermondsey)
Workhouse.
?? Eliza SHEPPARD, pauper, 6mos, born B [birthplace just a B - word not completed]
======
This is a fair possible for Richard in 1861 - perhaps he just said he was older?
His birthplace is in the Bermondsey area....i think....

1861 census (Billingsgate - London)
Vessel. "Lisa".
Richard SHEPARD, boy, 18, apprentice, b. Horselaydown, London.
======
As you say, everything points to it being "your" Richard...but getting proof is another thing....
Jack
====
ps; later....
There may yet be a way to know if you have the right family.
Father Richard's address in 1901 was 133 Park Street, as was May's on her marriage in 1916.
So if some (more the merrier) of the other children who were with mother Eliza Ann at 106 Convamore Rd....

i.e. Rose 24, Ethel 23, George 19, Alice 18, Richard 16.

...were also married from 133 Park Street then that might be proof enough?

I'm hoping that father Richard was only staying at 133 Park Street,
because Eliza Ann & the children hadn't finished the packing for their move along from 106 Convamore Rd....
And that they were all at 133 Park St. as a family from about 1901 onwards...
--

[bitkin]

Hello, it's the Herefordshire pest again! As you have all been so helpful, I will keep you updated on my progress with this.
Jack, I had already sent off for a couple of marriage certs (Alice and Edith) but doubt that they will reveal much, as one was 1901 and the other 1907, however you never know). I'm still looking for May's birth, and have been through the complete BMD records for two years either side of her year of birth. Will try again tomorrow with different spellings!.
Anyway, I see that in 1881, the family was at 208 Victor street, and on May's marriage cert the church was in Victor street, and whilst in 1916 when she married they were in Park Street, this is still a glimmer of progress and hope because the likelihood of two Mays,(same birth date) with a father called Richard who was a master mariner in the same area of Grimsby seems remote to me.
I have searched and searched all day long, and still the only family that now is in any way plausible, is the one that Jack has detailed above over the decades.
I will let you know what any certs that I have ordered reveal, and also will hopefully tie in the Greenock connection which is undoubtedly there somewhere, as my 92 year old father remembers visiting stop mother's relatives there on several occasions.
Thank you again - and Marilyn - as on one of the occasions that Richard appeared twice on the census two crew members were also with him at home, can you imagine the breakfast table? My imagination takes me to discussions of the day ahead and where they would go to set their nets! All whilst drinking tea from huge mugs and eating a vast breakfast.......