85th Regiment Dover Castle 1826?

[alysone]

Hi Alan,

This 1851 book “An alphabetical list of the officers of the Eighty-fifth, Bucks Volunteers.”
http://www.google.com.au/books?id=AlcBA ... frontcover
has a 12 page Regimental History at the front in very small print, but you can extract the OCR’d text by selecting “view plain text” for each page and check it against the image if ever you wanted a typed version

That old book is amazing! The history of the regiment is so detailed that they practically tell you what they ate for lunch! You are right: the print is very small. I can't read it all at once but will come back & finish it another time. I haven't figured out yet how to make a text copy yet. It would seem that the original is in the Bodleian Library & rather rare? Thanks again! alysone

[Currie]

Hello Alysone,

I haven’t been able to find a list of periods served by different Regiments at Edinburgh Castle although there is sure to be one lurking somewhere. It’ll turn up while I’m looking for something totally unrelated.

I guess the Royal Scots http://www.theroyalscots.co.uk/ 1st Regiment of Foot, would have been the main one. I don’t know how much Soldier accommodation there was in the Castle and nearby areas or if other Regiments were there from time to time.

James Bird is on FreeCen 1841 under BIND living at Pipes Close. He certainly looks to be a civilian at the time although living in an area where his skills would be useful.

You may have to wait until you access the records of the 85th Regiment before you get any certain clue as to what Regiment, if any, he served with in Scotland.

To copy the text from the Google Book just click on “view plain text” then select the text, copy it and paste it page by page into a Word processor then later tidy it up by checking against the image. Post back if you have any difficulties.

Best of luck,
Alan

[alysone]

Hi Alan,
That is interesting that they turn up as Bind on FreeCen, whereas Bend on Ancestry?! I had a graphic lesson this week in why not to trust Ancestry. A vital (for clarifying a stickler of a current conundrum)1891 census finally surfaced after a creative search by a friend at GenesReunited. It was simply missing on Ancestry! I certainly learned not to trust them for completeness or accuracy with that one. I gather I am not alone?

James Bird is on FreeCen 1841 under BIND living at Pipes Close. He certainly looks to be a civilian at the time although living in an area where his skills would be useful.

Yes, I am almost certain his military days were over by 1841. I do wish they would surface somewhere in 1851 to decide that. Otherwise it could be supposed they were with the 85th in Ireland? [-o<

To copy the text from the Google Book just click on “view plain text” then select the text, copy it and paste it page by page into a Word processor then later tidy it up by checking against the image. Post back if you have any difficulties.

It may well be after Christmas before I return to this, but now I understand what you mean.
Happy Winter Solstice everyone! alysone

[Montrose Budie]

Hello Alysone,

The Military Expert, whoever that is, hasn’t turned up so I’ll have a go and hope I don’t lead you too far up the garden path.

....an awfy lot snipped..............

Alan

He didn't "turn up" because

(a) he's retired from active involvement in TS, and now greatly enjoying normal life without the need to spend several hours per day on TS matters never mind the unbelievable amount of time required on the Admin side.

(b) on the occasional dip into current posts, something between weekly and fortnightly, he's more than satisfied that others are handling such military posts more than satisfactorily.

and

(c) where he spots something that is not quite right (see following post), or can add something (see the 4th Seaforths thread) he might still make the occasional contribution. But then he might chose no to do so! (e.g. where to find a listing of regiments stationed at Edinburgh Castle...........)

MB ....... to use an occasional description used on Victorian BMD registers in Scotland for the informant, an intimate friend of said "Military Expert".

[Montrose Budie]

Hi Alan,

.....snipped.......................

you have so kindly laid out here. How fascinating it all is?!
I was really interested to read about the variation in enlistment periods (from 7 years to life) depending on the enlistment date. Also, that once enlisted, there was no such thing as changing regiments.

....................much snipped............

This is one of these myths that have come to be believed, - a bit like the 8 glasses of water a day myth, without explaining that this includes the water in the food that we eat, - such food being most often 80%+ water in itself.

It was, in fact, far from uncommon for a soldier to switch regiments or be switched between regiments (or battalions for that matter).

If a battalion was about to go abroad, but not up to strength, then sojers would be posted from the other battalion(s) of the regiment; and, where that was not possible, volunteers called for from other regiments, failing sufficient volunteers, compulsory postings made.

Another common situation, certainly prior to fixed term engagements, but also after the reforms introducing these, was where a regiment was about to return to the UK, but the sojer in question so liked the life in whatever country involved, that he requested a transfer to another regiment remaining in the same country, - a very common occurence when he had met and married a local lassie, and had a family ............

Once you get forward to WWI, such changes of regiments, in fact, corps, were frequent for various reasons including the amalgamation of battalions, not even always the same regiment, when the losses were excessive.

MB

[David Lang]

Had a wee check on NA site and there a total of 4 Birds serving in the 85TH listed

One is past the timeline , but there is a John serving till 1838 , and 2 Thomas' i suspect that these guys are the same.

[alysone]

Thanks,

This is one of these myths that have come to be believed, - a bit like the 8 glasses of water a day myth, without explaining that this includes the water in the food that we eat, - such food being most often 80%+ water in itself.
It was, in fact, far from uncommon for a soldier to switch regiments or be switched between regiments (or battalions for that matter).

Sadly, it is really easy to be led astray when one is ignorant about a subject! What you say makes perfect sense. Both a soldier's circumstances & the course of regimental events would make for all sorts of career deviations. That is, the reality was way more fluid than the "regulations" or more likely someone's interpretation of them?
I have to say, it all seems rather complicated. Even the regiments themselves didn't seem to remain stable. Of course, when you think about it logically, how could they with campaigns, large numbers of casualties & the like forcing change? Fascinating, it certainly all is. It has made me more interested in historical events, in general.
Coincidentally, I have been listening on BBC7 to the Further Adventures of Dr. Syn. The stories are set in Kent in the 1790's & are about smuggling along the coast.The series really does give a sense of the place & times. The dragoons (and their leaders) seem to be continually outwitted by the marsh men, the Night Riders. I can now picture my Great Grandfather (3X), James Bird & his fellows being marching out onto Romney March to enforce the customs & excise laws. When they eventually turn up back at the garrison in Dover, they are found sealed in (now empty) casks. This to the general hilarity of the citizenry! alysone

[alysone]

Hi again,

Had a wee check on NA site and there a total of 4 Birds serving in the 85TH listed.
One is past the timeline , but there is a John serving till 1838 , and 2 Thomas' i suspect that these guys are the same.

Thanks David for looking up the Birds in the 85th over that time period. I am very interested in the Thomas, as well as the James who doesn't appear. He may well be the "army pensioner" Thomas Bird, father of Cecilia who married the son of James in 1872? To be clear, do you think there is really only one Thomas but showing 2?
I guess that means that James, who was a private in the 85th in 1826 when the births were registered, didn't stay with the regiment for long? Finding him in 1841 in Edinburgh, listed as a labourer, that would seem likely? But being an Armourer/Gunmaker, perhaps he would still make his living around soldiers? That might explain many of his neighbours being army personnel at the Piper's Close address as shown on the 1841 census I have posted to the gallery?
Unfortunately, I had hoped that James being "regimentally disposed" might make my discovery of his ultimate fate more feasible.
Gratefully yet again, alysone

[Montrose Budie]

Thanks,

This is one of these myths that have come to be believed, - a bit like the 8 glasses of water a day myth, without explaining that this includes the water in the food that we eat, - such food being most often 80%+ water in itself.
It was, in fact, far from uncommon for a soldier to switch regiments or be switched between regiments (or battalions for that matter).

Sadly, it is really easy to be led astray when one is ignorant about a subject! What you say makes perfect sense. Both a soldier's

....snipped..............

When they eventually turn up back at the garrison in Dover, they are found sealed in (now empty) casks. This to the general hilarity of the citizenry! alysone

Hi Alyson

See my PM

MB