Brick Wall- Andrew Landale

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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SheilaL
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:32 pm

Post by SheilaL » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:21 pm

hi LesleyB

No I don't have this,
Wow! Where did you find the record of a George Landale? :)
that would make his birthdate 1826? All the other info I have indicates that he was born in 1831....

Do you know how I would search for Episcopalian Clergy? Have to admit I am clueless as to where to look.

Thank you for your kind help,

Sheila

LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:43 pm

hi Sheila
The original images of the 1841 census (and all the other census between 1851 - 1901) can be found online at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , a pay per view site. I think transcriptions of the '41 are also available on ancestry and freecen is free.. www.freecen.org.uk
That Landale family can be found there, on freecen, but now I've looked at them there, sad to report, I don't think they are the right ones. Not seeing any clerics. :roll: just a "spirit dealer"...who some might say was a similar occupation, but not for our purposes!! :lol:
Do you know how I would search for Episcopalian Clergy?
You'd need to get access to the book by Bertie:
BERTIE, David M, "Scottish Episcopal Clergy 1689-2000" (Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 2000)
It may be available at a good reference library or a large Library near you. It's just a hunch on the Episcopalian thing, as I said. It's based the use of the word "clergyman", on the family names, and the link to India ....and I may be completely wrong. I've seen a couple of families at about the same time, also Edinburgh area, also involved in overseas trade, also with "clergy" connections and also reasonably well off, who were Episcopalian - your lot seem to fall into a similar category, so may be of the same church. It was quite "fashionable" at that time for the upwardly mobile to be Episcopalian... again, the marriage entries of any of the children may state the church and save a bit of guesswork!

If you cannot find the book anywhere near you get back to us here, as I for one am occaisionally near a couple of libraries which I know have the book.

Again, I may be off on a tangent...but given your man's occupation in the 1881, this household in Edinburgh in 1841, on freecen, which contains a Landale, is interesting, and I wonder if there is some kind of connection?

GRAHAM William M 40 Physician Midlothian
GRAHAM Jane F 25 England
LANDALE Christina F 18 Midlothian
GRAHAM Henry M 30 Indigo Planter Midlothian
GRAHAM Robert M 9 Outside Census County (1841)
GRAHAM Katherine F 7 Outside Census County (1841)
GRAHAM William M 6 Outside Census County (1841)
GRAHAM Jane F 4 Outside Census County (1841)
GRAHAM Jessie F 2 Outside Census County (1841)
MURRAY Mary F 40 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841)
TAYLOR Margaret F 25 Female Servant Outside Census County (1841)
WHITEFORD Sarah F 20 Female Servant Midlothian

Also on the Wills on ScotlandsPeople (free to search) is this entry, again I wonder if there is a connection, but maybe not.....?

Landale Walter 15/12/1892 Indigo Planter, 11 Mayfield Terrace, Edinburgh, d. 14/09/1892 at Edinburgh, testate Will Edinburgh Sheriff Court Wills

Another thing to bear in mind - at the time of George's death, who was the death informant? Often the death informant, perhaps a son, daughter or even wife, does not accurately remember the parent names...so they may be correct, but they may be variatons on a theme, so perhaps keep an open mind on that one for now, too.

Best wishes
Lesley

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:35 am

Hi Sheila
Three questions , the answers to which will help:
1.
Andrew is also not on "Fasti".....
Did you consult the books on this OR an online source?
2. Who is the death informant to George?
3. Have you the marriage entries, from Scotland, post 1855 of either:
a. Any of George's children?
b. Any of George's siblings?

Best wishes
Lesley

SheilaL
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:32 pm

Post by SheilaL » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:54 am

Hi Lesley,

1. I have only looked on line.
2. The death informant for George was his son Thomas.
3. I do not have the marriage entry for Thomas. (will have to do some inquiries, but I am not sure if the documents would be availible as he married in 1921 at the age of 49 :shock: ) None of Georges other children married.
4. I do not know if George had any sibblings.

I had a look at the Freecen site and there is nothing that looks right to me yet.
I will contact the Library to see if they would have a copy of Scottish Episcopal Clergy ...
Regards,
Sheila

LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:27 am

Hi Sheila

1. I have only looked on line.
As far as I'm aware, at least when I last looked, there was not a complete version of the Fasti online, to search, only sections. There is apparently the complete set to download here:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... pe%3Atexts
This would seem to be the one wich covers the Lothian synod :
http://www.archive.org/details/fastiecclesiu01scotuoft
but as you note, there is no sign of Landale so far...
What web site were you looking at?

2. The death informant for George was his son Thomas.
Ok, so he may have known his grandparents names, but he may not be 100% accurate. Ellens often turn up as Helens, surnames can get muddled etc. He may be right, but we need to keep an open mind.

3. I do not have the marriage entry for Thomas. (will have to do some inquiries, but I am not sure if the documents would be availible as he married in 1921 at the age of 49 ) None of Georges other children married.
Marriages on Scotlands People go up to 1932, but did Thomas marry in Scotland, or elsewhere? I'm not seeing a Thomas Landale marriage there around 1920 on a quick search. Do you know the name of his spouse?
Did Thomas die in Scotland?

4. I do not know if George had any sibblings.
OK. Sometimes going sideways to siblings can help solve problems, and reveal extra information, so it is always worth exploring the bigger picture, not just the direct line. e.g. it is worth having a look and being familiar with and perhaps keeping note of the Landale households in the 1841 in Edinburgh - I would be very surprised if there is not some connection somewhere to at least some of them.... it may not be obvious though and it may take some time to sort out!

Best wishes
Lesley

SheilaL
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:32 pm

Post by SheilaL » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:26 pm

Lesley,

Lots to look at and explore.... I should have mentioned that I am in Canada.and my grandfather was Thomas and I believe he married in a First United Church.

The Walter Landale you mention was in India at the same time as George and they also married the same year. I have been in contact with the decendant of Walters :) but she is in the same boat as me. She has hit a brick wall as well.
The info you have provided has been very helpful :D and I will share this with her, perhaps she will have more luck. She is in Scotland and info might be easier to come by.

Thanks again!!!

on with the search
Kind regards,

Sheila

LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:34 pm

Hi Sheila
In 1891 George is a widower, seems his wife Agnes died in 1887. Your grandfather Thomas is stilll living at home.
Found at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Best wishes
Lesley

nelmit
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Location: Scotland

Post by nelmit » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:18 pm

Hi All,

Just in case you don't have this Sheila. There is this George Landale, from Ancestry, born Scotland, living at Essex in 1841. I can't make out the first word of George senior's occupation but the second is definitely Minister.

Landale George 50 ....... Minister born Scotland
George Landale 12 Born Scotland
Helen Landale 15 Born Scotland
Isabella Landale 20 Born Scotland

Unfortunately as you know there are no relationships shown in 1841 so we can't tell if they are all George's children or not. The only one I could find a maybe for is an Isabella born to George and Isabella Evans in 1817 at Edinburgh.

I'm sure you will also have this marriage extract but thought I'd throw it in anyway -

HELEN EWING LANDALE Female
Marriages:
Spouse: CHARLES ROBERT JENNINGS
Marriage: 23 AUG 1850 India Office Ecclesiastical Returns-Bengal Presidency,,Misc, , , India

Regards,
Annette

SheilaL
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:32 pm

Post by SheilaL » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:10 am

:D No, I don't have that

Oh my!!!!! I am still trying to absorb this!!!

I knew about the Marriage of Helen Ewing Landale in India, but because of the copy of George's death cert states that Helen Ewing was his mother I assumed that was her....perhaps Helen was his sister...makes much more sense age wise... :oops: Silly of me to make assumptions.
You say you found this on "Ancestry". I have not used this site. Time to sign up!!!

Thank you so very much!!! I will let you know what I can find out next!

Cheers!


Sheila

AndrewP
Site Admin
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Edinburgh

Post by AndrewP » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:00 am

nelmit wrote:...
There is this George Landale, from Ancestry, born Scotland, living at Essex in 1841. I can't make out the first word of George senior's occupation but the second is definitely Minister.

Landale George 50 ....... Minister born Scotland
George Landale 12 Born Scotland
Helen Landale 15 Born Scotland
Isabella Landale 20 Born Scotland
...
I took a look at the census image. I think it says that George was a Dissinting Minister, which I assume should be Dissenting Minister - a minister of a dissenting church - one of the churches that broke away from the Established Church.

All the best,

AndrewP