Hello Applejack,
Have you seen the marriage and death certificates or index for William in case there is some indication there of his parentage. Did he die in Bourke, New South Wales? I can’t see an entry in the NSW death index for him.
These Dorwards are in the same household in South Stoneham in the 1911 Census
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx?5
DORWARD GEORGE, M, 1877, 34, South Stoneham, Hampshire
DORWARD AGNES, F, 1878, 33, South Stoneham, Hampshire
DORWARD MARY, F, 1909, 2, South Stoneham, Hampshire
I can’t see the birth of the child Mary on FreeBMD so she was possibly Scottish.
There’s another Dorward household in South Stoneham which seems a bit unusual because these six are the only Dorwards in Hampshire and there are only 73 for all the available English counties so could be a connection.
DORWARD JAMES, M, 1884, 27, South Stoneham, Hampshire
DORWARD ETHEL MAY, F, 1888, 23, South Stoneham, Hampshire
DORWARD JAMES, M, 1909, 2, South Stoneham, Hampshire
The child James in this second household was born in the District of South Stoneham and there are no less than 9 events there for a Dorward – Morfitt combination 1908 to 1914. There’s a marriage in Co. Durham, Jun Qtr 1905 Hartlepool 10a261
DORWARD James - MORFITT Ethel May
Hope that helps,
Alan
BRICK WALL!!!!
Moderator: Global Moderators
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applejack
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:01 pm
BRICK WALL!!!!
Hi MB & Alan,
I have also come across these Dorwards on numerous occasions while researching, maybe there is a connection somewhere along the line, i will look into this now, it has cropped up again.
As ive already discovered, William b1853 arrived in Manchester during the 1870s, where he met his wife Eliza Hancock, they married in 1878. William b1873 was also living in Manchester during the 1890s, where he married much to my surprise - his cousin, Williams daughter Jessie Dorward b1883, which was quite a surprise.
On the 1901 census William b1873 & Jessie are living Dundonald Street, Angus, where two of their children were born, William and Annie Findlay Dorward. On the 1911 census they are back in Manchester. Willam b1873 may have gone to Manchester, following his grandma Margarets death. .....
It was from 1901-1912 that many of them emigrated to Australia including williams (b1853) son Quentin, who left his young son James b1908 in the care of his sister Jessie.
Thanks again for all your time, regards, Applejack
I have also come across these Dorwards on numerous occasions while researching, maybe there is a connection somewhere along the line, i will look into this now, it has cropped up again.
As ive already discovered, William b1853 arrived in Manchester during the 1870s, where he met his wife Eliza Hancock, they married in 1878. William b1873 was also living in Manchester during the 1890s, where he married much to my surprise - his cousin, Williams daughter Jessie Dorward b1883, which was quite a surprise.
On the 1901 census William b1873 & Jessie are living Dundonald Street, Angus, where two of their children were born, William and Annie Findlay Dorward. On the 1911 census they are back in Manchester. Willam b1873 may have gone to Manchester, following his grandma Margarets death. .....
It was from 1901-1912 that many of them emigrated to Australia including williams (b1853) son Quentin, who left his young son James b1908 in the care of his sister Jessie.
Thanks again for all your time, regards, Applejack
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Montrose Budie
- Posts: 713
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm
This request may well have lost in the body of the above post ..........
I'd like to have seen the 1851 census, but this is one of those few images which aren't available, never mind that, in the index, I can't see a matching family grouping (anyone want to try in the Ancestry index?, - the parish is Monifieth, but Margaret may have been visiting relatives or friends on census night); and the Mormon LDS FamilyHistory website doesn't help in terms of births!, although, as noted earlier, there's a dual record of the marriage in Monifieth/Dundee.
mb
I'd like to have seen the 1851 census, but this is one of those few images which aren't available, never mind that, in the index, I can't see a matching family grouping (anyone want to try in the Ancestry index?, - the parish is Monifieth, but Margaret may have been visiting relatives or friends on census night); and the Mormon LDS FamilyHistory website doesn't help in terms of births!, although, as noted earlier, there's a dual record of the marriage in Monifieth/Dundee.
mb
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JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
If the DC in 1859 is your George then his occupation at death was a hammerman. In 1851 there is only one George as hammerman and he is with wife Mary (which wouldn't be the first time Margaret and Mary have been played with)
Name: George Dorward
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Parish Number: 310
Civil Parish: Monifieth
Town: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: Monifieth Village
Occupation: Hammerman
ED: 2
Page: 6 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 22
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1851_67
Household Members: Name Age
George Dorward 40
Mary Dorward 39
James Dorward 2
John Dorward 4
however by 1861 Mary/Margaret seems to have lost John b. abt 1846 and acquired one b. abt 1851...
Name: Margaret Dorward
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil Parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: West March
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 6
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_44
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Dorward 48
James Dorward 12
John Dorward 10
William Dorward 8
unless the names and ages have been confused. I'm more struck by the brother James who was the death informant for George. In 1851 there is a James with wife Agnes (Low) in Monifieth with 3 children and a niece in household. The niece is Mary DORWARD age 10 and b. Dundee. I can't help but wonder if she is a dau of George and Margaret (since we know Margaret (Webster) hailed from Dundee according to her OPR marriage data.....maybe went home to mum for the first child sort of thing...
...but....by 1861 the only Mary I find is an unmarried servant in Dundee which still could be our Mary.....but a bigger but...in the household of James and new wife? Isabella there is a wee Robert Williamson age 1 b. Dundee and called niece's son!! I didn't find a birth of a Robert Williamson yet that might show his mum is Mary...and I didn't find a marriage yet for Mary to show she might be another child of George and Margaret and I can't find a marriage for James and Isabella and I can't find a birth of the dau Elizabeth b. abt 1854 because this whole family is clearly jinxed when it comes to cut off dates!!!!
PHew..... as you can see I have been trying....
Best wishes
Jean
Name: George Dorward
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Parish Number: 310
Civil Parish: Monifieth
Town: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: Monifieth Village
Occupation: Hammerman
ED: 2
Page: 6 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 22
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1851_67
Household Members: Name Age
George Dorward 40
Mary Dorward 39
James Dorward 2
John Dorward 4
however by 1861 Mary/Margaret seems to have lost John b. abt 1846 and acquired one b. abt 1851...
Name: Margaret Dorward
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil Parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: West March
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 6
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_44
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Dorward 48
James Dorward 12
John Dorward 10
William Dorward 8
unless the names and ages have been confused. I'm more struck by the brother James who was the death informant for George. In 1851 there is a James with wife Agnes (Low) in Monifieth with 3 children and a niece in household. The niece is Mary DORWARD age 10 and b. Dundee. I can't help but wonder if she is a dau of George and Margaret (since we know Margaret (Webster) hailed from Dundee according to her OPR marriage data.....maybe went home to mum for the first child sort of thing...
...but....by 1861 the only Mary I find is an unmarried servant in Dundee which still could be our Mary.....but a bigger but...in the household of James and new wife? Isabella there is a wee Robert Williamson age 1 b. Dundee and called niece's son!! I didn't find a birth of a Robert Williamson yet that might show his mum is Mary...and I didn't find a marriage yet for Mary to show she might be another child of George and Margaret and I can't find a marriage for James and Isabella and I can't find a birth of the dau Elizabeth b. abt 1854 because this whole family is clearly jinxed when it comes to cut off dates!!!!
PHew..... as you can see I have been trying....
Best wishes
Jean
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JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Forgot to insert the 1861 James and Isabella census results...
Name: James Dorward
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil Parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: Monifieth
Occupation: Hammerman Foundry
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 92
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1861_44
Household Members: Name Age
James Dorward 57
Isabella Dorward 30
David Dorward 19
Margaret Dorward 21
Helen Dorward 17
Elizabeth Dorward 7
Robert Williamson 2
The fact that James works as a hammerman only re-inforces my suspicions that he is a brother to George.
Best wishes
Jean
Name: James Dorward
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Isabella
Gender: Male
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil Parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: Monifieth
Occupation: Hammerman Foundry
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 92
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1861_44
Household Members: Name Age
James Dorward 57
Isabella Dorward 30
David Dorward 19
Margaret Dorward 21
Helen Dorward 17
Elizabeth Dorward 7
Robert Williamson 2
The fact that James works as a hammerman only re-inforces my suspicions that he is a brother to George.
Best wishes
Jean
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JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
Ummm....the bold part refers to 1851....JustJean wrote:If the DC in 1859 is your George then his occupation at death was a hammerman. In 1851 there is only one George as hammerman and he is with wife Mary (which wouldn't be the first time Margaret and Mary have been played with)
Name: George Dorward
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Parish Number: 310
Civil Parish: Monifieth
Town: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: Monifieth Village
Occupation: Hammerman
ED: 2
Page: 6 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 22
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1851_67
Household Members: Name Age
George Dorward 40
Mary Dorward 39
James Dorward 2
John Dorward 4
however by 1861 Mary/Margaret seems to have lost John b. abt 1846 and acquired one b. abt 1851...
Name: Margaret Dorward
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Monifieth, Forfar
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil Parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: West March
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 6
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1861_44
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Dorward 48
James Dorward 12
John Dorward 10
William Dorward 8
unless the names and ages have been confused. I'm more struck by the brother James who was the death informant for George. In 1851 there is a James with wife Agnes (Low) in Monifieth with 3 children and a niece in household. The niece is Mary DORWARD age 10 and b. Dundee. I can't help but wonder if she is a dau of George and Margaret (since we know Margaret (Webster) hailed from Dundee according to her OPR marriage data.....maybe went home to mum for the first child sort of thing...
...but....by 1861 the only Mary I find is an unmarried servant in Dundee which still could be our Mary.....but a bigger but...in the household of James and new wife? Isabella there is a wee Robert Williamson age 1 b. Dundee and called niece's son!! I didn't find a birth of a Robert Williamson yet that might show his mum is Mary...and I didn't find a marriage yet for Mary to show she might be another child of George and Margaret and I can't find a marriage for James and Isabella and I can't find a birth of the dau Elizabeth b. abt 1854 because this whole family is clearly jinxed when it comes to cut off dates!!!!
PHew..... as you can see I have been trying....
Best wishes
Jean
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JustJean
- Posts: 2520
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:52 am
- Location: Maine USA
I've been wondering too.....I spose it's possible that the 4 year old John on the Ancestry 1851 might have really been a 4 month old John and just got enumerated incorrectly or mis-read for the ancestry indexes. If that were true and if we are talking the same family from 1851 to 1861 then there would have been no death of a John and birth of a John...only the birth of a William that we know of so far....
Best wishes
Jean
Best wishes
Jean
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Montrose Budie
- Posts: 713
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm
Hi JustJean
Apologies, I missed the 1851 reference!
The Monifieth record is attractive, not least the occupation, and the age, given the reported age of 48 in the 1859 death record, but I'm still not convinced in terms of the differences in relation to the names of the wife and wains.
Quite deliberately playing Devil's Advocate, is it impossible that there was more than the one George of a similar occupation in Monifieth at this time ?
Orraverybest
mb
Apologies, I missed the 1851 reference!
The Monifieth record is attractive, not least the occupation, and the age, given the reported age of 48 in the 1859 death record, but I'm still not convinced in terms of the differences in relation to the names of the wife and wains.
Quite deliberately playing Devil's Advocate, is it impossible that there was more than the one George of a similar occupation in Monifieth at this time ?
Orraverybest
mb