Still looking for Leo.....

[nelmit]

Hello J,

I am not at home where the transcriptions are at the moment so I cannot post the other applications including one from Leo/James.

I was waiting for you to get in touch to make sure you were still interested before I typed them up. I think we can safely say you are!

I have sent you a private message too.

Be back this evening,
Annette M

[nelmit]

Catherine McDade Murray Date of Application - 27.3.1863

Address - 100 Saltmarket
Born - Ireland, Derry.
Widow age 33 Occ. Washer
No Earnings
Disability - Pregnant

Dependents - William age 12 b. 93 High Street
Catherine age 7 b. 93 High Street
Margaret age 5 b. Barbers Close, Saltmarket
Mary age 2 b. 93 High Street
8/1232 Agnes(obviously added later)

Husband Edward Murray a cab driver born in Saltmarket died 10 days ago age 33. He was ill and off work for 5 months. He was a member of the Cabmen's Funeral Society. The Society paid £3 to bury him. Widow applies for outdoor relief. She is pregnant and expects to be confined this month.

Was married 15 years ago by Priest Chisholm.
House very comfortable. Rent 11/3 monthly.

In present house 1year 1 month
Prior in 93 High st 1 year
Prior in Barbers court 3 years
Prior in 93 High Street 7 years

28/3/67 House by committee, she was sent 40 days to prison in December last for shebeening which she concealed from inspector.

21/11/73 - 35 Young St - injured elbow
William married 1 child in Young St a shoemaker
Catherine married 0 children to .........McLean a shoemaker
Margaret a wool pick residing with Catherine
Mary in Dundee
Agnes with pauper's sister

27.10.80
William in England
Catherine husb. Thomas McLean, 151 Gallowgate
Margaret single in England
Mary single with McCafferty in Gallowgate
Agnes 19 McPherson St. with aunt.

13/3/94 - applied
23/3/94 - Left OK

I had a wee giggle when I discovered what shebeening meant.

Be back after dinner if I win the 'battle of the computer' with my son.

Kind regards,
Annette M

[James Tabago]

Hello Annette
Thank you I am amazed at what you have discovered. The records give so much detail, I can hardly take it all in. All the info fits in with what I already have, you have now put the flesh on the bones, thank you. Below is the confirmation info you asked about the ages at marriage etc. plus census details. I hope the next time I'm on this site I will be able to say I have found Leo Mooneys death certificate, and my dad and I never thought we would. Spooky is the right word for 188 Tabago Street, my dad was born there 15th Dec 1928!!!

Census: 1861 James Mooney 19 22 Shuttle Street Glasgow living with Owen Reilly and family and Mary Winslow both were witness’s at James marriage to Bridget.

Marriage: High Church Glasgow 15th May 1861 James Mooney Labourer(age 18) & Bridget Welsh agricultural labourer (age 20 or 30)address @ marriage 189 High Street Glasgow. Parents Leo Mooney Labourer and Rose Reilly. James Welsh Labourer deceased and Mary Dane. I know that James & Rose had three children James, Pat and Thomas

Birth: Thomas Mooney (Alias Leo?) b 15th Feb 1862 High Church Glasgow parents James Mooney & Bridget Welsh (Signed by Bridget X)

Census: 1871 94 High Street James Mooney age 25 Bridget Welsh Mooney age 35 son Leo age 9


Marriage: Leo Mooney Steamship Stoker (age 24) & Agnes Murray (age 22) address @ marriage 2 McPhearson street. Parents James Mooney Ship Stoker & Bridget Mooney (both alive) Edward Murray & Catherine McDade (says both alive but I have death certificate for Edward Murray for 8th March 1863)


Son James Mooney b 3rd Jan 1890 parents Leo Mooney & Agnes Murray (Signed by Leo own hand)
Son Robert Mooney b 13th May 1895 parents Leo Mooney & Agnes Murray (Signed by Agnes X)

Census: 1891 69 Bain Street Agnes Murray Mooney (age 29) with son James age 1

Census: 1901 Agnes Murray Mooney age 35 with children James age 11 and Robert 5 (my grandfather)

A great big cheer for Annette who has in the last few days has taken down a brickwall for us, thank you Annette
J

[nelmit]

Hi again,

Applications for Relief by Bridget Welsh Mooney

Number 1
Date of Application - 28th February 1883.
Condition - Deserted Age - 49

Dependents - Mary 13 b. Ireland
John 10 b. High St
James 8 b. High St.
8/1232LEO

Husband James Mooney left her 4 months ago to go to America.

Did not return with medical certificate.


Number 2
Date of application - 24th March 1886
Address - 2 McPherson St. 2 up right lobby and far left door.
Place of birth - Co. Mayo, Ireland.

Condition - Married Age - 50 Occ. - Rag Store worker
Disability for Self Religion - R.C.

Name and age of dependents-
Andrew, 12 years b. High Street
8/1232 LEO

I am going to write the next bit as I have transcribed but I will need to check it out.
Names of non dependents
Mary 21 years b. High St. married James Mooney a ________ in America.

Husband, James Mooney age 41 years b. in Co. Cavan, a seaman. Went to sea 18 months ago and not heard of him since. Parents names unknown.

Daughter of James Welsh a farmer and Mary Welsh both dead.

Was married in St. Vincent R.C. Chapel by Father Bonnyman 15th May 1859.
Rent - 9/2 per month. 1 apt., no lodgers, clean and tidy.
Prior residences - High st. and Graeme st. and Little Dovehill since marriage 26 years.

The red numbers refer to an application but the book did not survive. Very frustrating!!!

Well, to all those who are following the story (or should I say trying to) I did eventually find an application for James (Leo) Mooney. I have sent it by PM to J. to give him a chance to try and sort it all out.
Annette M

I've just read your post J. about where your dad was born. I'm sure you realise Leo/James knew him.

[Jean Jeanie]

Had to look up shebeening too.

I have been reading this topic with great interest. Hope J fills in the blanks

Jean

[nelmit]

The Last Application for those who are (or are not) following the story.

Application for Relief Dated 13/10/06

Leo^ James Mooney (Leo had been added later)
240 Gallowgate 2 up Mallon ??

Age 41 (which was the scored out and 31 entered)!!!!??

Born - High St. Glasgow Occ. - Seaman Religion - R.C.
Married 18 years ago by Father McGinn, St. Alphonsus.

Disability - Sore on foot - Inflamed large ?boil?on left foot. (dead bone)

Parents - James Mooney a seaman and Bridget Welsh in Canada, Montreal with brother.

Wife - Agnes Murray, 40 years from High St. Daughter of Edward Murray and Catherine McDade.

Wife lives with her married sister at 69 Bain Street and supports herself.

Children not dependent- James 16 born 98 Gallowgate works in Singers, Kilbirnie (I think that is what it said)

Robert age 11 with uncle. (Robert had been written in pencil as though he was unsure of his name)

Present address S.A. Home, London Street.

Has been away at sea as a fireman for the past 12 years (this ties in with info from Agnes) with sea ..........? and during that time never in Glasgow.

Decision 19/10/06 - Poorhouse

4/1/29 - Leo Mooney 188 Tobago Street(how spooky is that?)
7/1/29 - 6/- for 8 weeks
13/2/30 - Rheumatism
6/3/30 - ....OAP refused to sign over pension.
Off Roll
13/5/30 - Leo Mooney 13/5/30
Applies OAP 10/-. Refuses to allow pension to be drawn while in hospital.
There 10 weeks £5
19/5/30 - No case.

So as you can see he was still living in Glasgow in 1930. As for his real age ??? According to his mother he was born in 1875 - this is how I found him indexed as being born in 1875 but of course that would mean he was only 13 when he got married.

J hopefully you will be able to find his death record on SP.
Let us know if you do.

I wonder where the children were in 1881? Who is Andrew? Who is John?
I could go on.

Wish your dad a happy birthday, I always like to help a fellow Sagittarian. (Mine is on Thursday along with my eldest son)

Kind regards,
Annette M

[LesleyB]

Wow!
I've been following this post all long (Ok, trying to follow...)- what a twist at the end!! Easily rivaling "Bleak House"!
What a fascinating picture the series of Poor Relief applications has painted - thank you for sharing this with us Annette and James.

Best wishes
Lesley
p.s. I suppose there maybe could be a few more twists to this yet!

[James Tabago]

Hello Annette
Loads of info maybe I can’t see the wood for the trees!!!

Leo Mooney & Rose Reilly 3 children
James, Pat & Thomas (that I know of)
James married Bridget Welsh only child I have found is Thomas b 1862
Pat had 8 children one called John b 1872 one James b 1875, one called Mary b 1879 and one called Leo b 1885 (have birth & death certificate) have births etc. for others
Thomas was single died in the city poorhouse 1896

The 1871 census on SP for James & Bridget 98 High Street has James 25 and Bridget 35 and Leo son age 9 have looked at the original again and I’m sure its them. There are no other children and then I have again from SP a birth certificate for a Thomas Mooney for 1862 have not found any death certificate for him (as yet!!!)

Did Bridget ‘borrow’ her brother in laws children for the poor relief application??
For the 1881 Census I have James & Bridget @ 9 McPhearson Street and the brother Pat Mooney (transcription error Kane) at 15 Little Dovehill with 6 of his children (James, John, Mary, Patrick, Thomas and Bernard) and a Rose Mooney a widowed visitor (nurse) from Co. Cavan Ireland. I haven’t come across an Andrew (as yet)
Re checked birth and marriage certificates and I’m sure I have the right James Mooney & Bridget welsh married 1861 parents Leo Mooney & Rose Reilly and James Welsh (deceased in 1861) & Mary Dane.

No sign of Bridget on the 1901 Census and from the info you have supplied re Agnes Murray Mooney she states that James & Bridget are both in America in 1901

Very much poorer looking for death certificate for a James (Leo) Mooney have tried and looked but no luck. 6 lots of credits, people will start complaining mostly family!!! Neither have a found a death certificate for the child of James & Bridget (Thomas b 1862)
Leo first application for poor relief in 1906 and the second in 1929 he perhaps went back to sea between these dates. By 1930 he is an OAP with a pension do you think this would have been a seaman’s pension or the state pension?? And the age is also a bit curious with in 1906 age 41 given but that then scored out to 31. Doing the calculations he would either have been born around 1865 or 1875 (Pat Mooney’s son James was b 1876!!) and if its 1865 this relates nearer to James & Bridget’s child Thomas!! am I missing something? or am I reading things into it that are not there??!!!!
It really is a bit spooky that my dad born in 1928 and his grandfather was living at the same address 188 Tobago Street, strange or what
J

[nelmit]

Oh dear J I feel I'm making things worse. I really thought James (Leo) would have died in Scotland but I'm sure you would have found him by now if he had.

I know it's tempting to keep spending those credits - you always think it will be the next you look at but I think you're doing the right thing for the moment in stopping.

It had crossed my mind that Bridget had "borrowed" her children. but I discounted that. Another thought was perhaps he was born in Ireland.
I also think the age he stated (41 in 1906) sounds alright.

You can be rest assured we will not be the only people trying to work it all out. I'll see what I can do with the extra info.

Regards,
Annette M

[James Tabago]

Hello
Just a quick update still no sign of Leo!!!James, but I did find the death of one of his nephews James Mooney 1915 so at least I can cross that one off. The information I checked from Bridget Welsh Mooney applications don't seem to tally up. Checked the marriage date she gave 1859 when in fact it was 1861, also no sign of an Andrew, Mary, John or James to Bridget Welsh. This is really doing my head in!!!!!! not to mention my pocket!!!
Also rechecked the census of 1881 and James & Bridget Welsh were at 9 McPherson street and no children!!! don't know where she got them all from. But it appears that McPherson Street was a boarding house. No sign of any death certificate for the only definate child I have for James Mooney & Bridget Welsh = Thomas 1862, there were no deaths for a Thomas Mooney from 1862 until 1869 which takes me out of the date range for the 1871 census for James & Bridget with Leo age 9 at 94 High Street. Hope you can make sense of all this, just too many trees for me at the moment hope someone can help
Thanks for taking the time to read
J