Anna Thomson/William Bottomley.....

[dotty]

thanks Sally for your reply.
I just feel like rolling myself down the Ardennes with the headache this lot has given me.
Just when I thought I had sorted this Family out!!!!

Have a nice Easter Roll

Dorothy

[sporran]

Hello Dotty,


I said that I would have a rest and return to this, so you any other readers should have a flask (thermos, hip, or both) ready for a long tale.

The 1851 census for Dumfries and Galloway at http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx (big thanks to the transcribers) shows that there were 2 William Bottoml(e)ys in the area, both born in Saddleworth. For good measure, there was also John Bottomley from Saddleworth.

As far as I can determine, the families and offspring are as follows, starting with yours.

William Bottomley or Schofield was born in Saddleworth (or Delph) in about 1823 to David Bottomley and Sarah ms Schofield.

He was married as William Bottomley to Mary Anderson Halliday in 1849 at Dumfries, and they appear in the 1851 census there as William 39 (more probably 29), Mary 22, and Elizabeth 9mo. Elizabeth Schofield Bottomley was christened in 1850 at Dumfries, and Charles Gilbert Schofield (mother Halliday) was christened in 1852.

Mary Bottomley died in 1858 at Dumfries, with her mother being the informant.

In the 1851 census for Maxwelltown in Troqueer (the other side of the River Nith at Dumfries), Margaret Cardy or Caidy 25 is living with parents John 55 and Elisabeth 53. Agnes Cardy (illegitimate) was born in Lesmahagow in 1856 but registered in 1859 at Lesmahagow and Troqueer under an order of the Sheriff Substitute of Lanark. I have consulted David Webster about this late registration, and after three months the Sheriff Substitute had to be involved, with a fee and perhaps a very substantial fine. We can find no reason why this late registration occurred and we do not wish to speculate.

William Bottomley married Margaret Cardy at Dumfries in 1859 and David Bottomley was born there at the end of 1859 and registered in 1860. For the 1861 census you found the family as Schofield and living back in England at Backston Pit (Buckton, near Mossley?) with children Elizabeth 10, Charles 8, Agnes 4, and David 1, i.e. those mentioned above. MaryE found the family in Hartshead (just west of Mossley) in 1871. William died in the Ashton-under-Lyne district in 1874, and widow Margaret is with several of her children in 1881 at Stayley in Cheshire (later absorbed into Stalybridge).

The other family involving a William Bottomley was with Grace Caven, but I can find no trace of a marriage on SP. The children were Margaret in about 1850-1854, John 1855, Mary Jane 1857, and Catherine 1860. I found no birth for Margaret, the other girls were registered as Caven(s), and John was registered as Bottomley with William as father. They were in the 1871 census in Dumfries with no other children. William died in 1875 aged 56, and only one parent (unable to decipher first name) was listed. Grace died in 1898, also in Dumfries.

Another birth involving a William Bottomley was that of Mary Bottomley to Margaret Briggs in about 1849. The 1851 census has Mary Oliver 58, daughter Margaret Briggs 19, and grand-daughter Mary Bottomley 2. Mary Oliver died in 1855, and Mary Bottomley died in 1863 aged 14, with her mother recorded as deceased. However, Margaret Briggs really died in 1872, still in Dumfries.

The final birth was William Bottomley, the illegitimate child of Helen or Ellen Hornall in 1859. William was present at the registration, and there was a long note about paternity in the margin. Helen appears in the 1851 and 1871 censuses with her parents James and Elizabeth Hornal(l). William Bottomley is with her in the 1871 census.

So which William Bottomley was the father of the last two children? The William with Grace Caven in the 1871 census lived in the Kingholm Quay area to the south of Dumfries, and that is the address of the William who fathered her child. Margaret Briggs' child was an OPR birth, but in the 1851 census she is living in the centre of Dumfries, not far from your William Bottomley. But who can be sure about the fathers?

Finally, Anna Thomson and the marriage to William Bottomley in 1844. There are no deaths in Scotland of a woman with those surnames in the statutory records. Although there may be records in NAS for her burial and possible hiring of mortcloth, there may be records in Glasgow (Mitchell library), but I shall leave that to people with experience of searching there. There is a slim chance that the OPR marriage will have more than basic information, but your best chance may be with the 1841 census to discover if your William was in Glasgow.


Regards,

John

[dotty]

Hello John,
Thanks very much for your reply and effort.I think I need more than a drink to absorb this.Perhaps my William wasn't as bad as I thought or maybe he was !!!!

Best wishes
Dorothy

[Ruth]

Hi,

Don't know if the original posters are still around but I found this thread and think I may unfortunately have a link to one of the William Bottomleys:

The other family involving a William Bottomley was with Grace Caven, but I can find no trace of a marriage on SP. The children were Margaret in about 1850-1854, John 1855, Mary Jane 1857, and Catherine 1860. I found no birth for Margaret, the other girls were registered as Caven(s), and John was registered as Bottomley with William as father. They were in the 1871 census in Dumfries with no other children. William died in 1875 aged 56, and only one parent (unable to decipher first name) was listed. Grace died in 1898, also in Dumfries.

I believe Grace Caven was the half-sister of my G-G-Grandmother Margaret Fraser.

I really am just wondering if anyone has looked at the 1898 death certificate for Grace and can tell me if her parents details are given?

Thanks,
Ruth

[sporran]

Hello Ruth,


the Grace who died in Dumfries during 1898 had parents of John Cavan, miller (deceased) and Catherine Cavan, ms Hewson (deceased).


Regards,

John

[Ruth]

Fantastic! Thanks so much John. I have a nasty little labyrinth made up of Frasers, Cavens and this Catherine Hewson/Hawson/Hassan/Herron and this peice fits in nicely (though I'm still lost in the middle somewhere).

Cheers,
Ruth

[dotty]

After a long absence from the list after having fantastic help from John, I am wondering if anybody can help again?
On the 1841 census I have
John Cardy b 1801 Ireland
Elisabeth Cardy b 1801 Ireland
Agness b 1824 England
Margret b 1826 England[ Carlisle]
Samuel b 1829 Dumfriesshire
John b1831 Dumfriesshire
Robert b 1834 Dumfriesshire
William b1836 Dumfriesshire
Agness Smyly b 1761 Ireland

On the 51 just John snr, Elisabeth and Margret ,please where have they all gone?

Could anybody tell me what is a Cotton KLW as an occupation?

I have found a WILLIAM BOTTOMLEY on the 41 census details
William Bottomley b abt 1821 England .
Civil parish Denny Stirlingshire Woollen spinner

Could this be my William ?Is there anywhere where there would be any further info?
Going back to the Cardys.John Married Elizabeth Lynn in Dumfries in 1822,can yuo suggest which route they would have taken from Ireland and are there any passenger ships list for those areas available

Many thanks
Dotty

[Jean Jeanie]

Hello Dotty

The only thing I can help you with at the moment is the occupation you asked about.

I think it should be HLW not KLW. The letters H and K were very similar back then. Therefore the occupation is Cotton Hand Loom Weaver. HLW was a very common abbreviation back then for the occupation.

Jean

[dotty]

Thanks Jean


Dotty