Alexander Baillie, Penninghame Wigtown.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:56 pm

SarahND wrote: Bailey, Mrs. Helen, head, b. June 1856, age 43, Married for 24 years, 10 children, of whom 7 living, born in Scotland, came to U.S. in 1894
__Robert A, son, b. Oct 1880, age 19, born in Scotland, sculptor
__James C, son, b. Aug 1883, age 16, born in Scotland, cannot read or write
__ Maggie J, daughter, born Oct 1886, age 13, born in Scotland, at school
__Elizabeth A, daughter, born Feb 1892, age 8, born in Scotland, at school
__Helen A, daughter, born Jul 1898, age 1, born in New Jersey
Kelly, Mary E., mother, born Sept 1824, age 75, widowed, 1 child born, 1 living, born in Scotland, cannot read or write

It looks as though something was wrong with James, since at 16 he is still illiterate, unlike his siblings.

If this is the right family, it gives you the name of several of the daughters born after 1881. I wonder where Alexander was? His wife says she is married, not widowed.

All the best,
Sarah
If I ever get my hands on a time machine, one task will be to go back to 1854 and arrange that the Act of Parliament introducing statutory (civil) registration of BMDs in Scotland is amended to make it compulsory for kids to be given a middle name \:D/

Which is a way of saying that it's a matter of only 12 credits to check at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk that Robert Alexander BAILLIE and and Elizabeth Alexa BAILLIE were indeed the children of Alexander Baillie and Helen Kellie (note spelling).

More later, maybe........

David
Last edited by DavidWW on Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marilyn morning
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Post by marilyn morning » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:04 pm

Hi Lesley
Hi Marilyn
I'm not able to open the image - image software says there is some problem with it. But that aside, if there is a transcription error, it is well worth while sending a contact form to SP.
Gee Lesley, I'm not sure what the problem is? But I'll look into it later today. :wink: Reb was able to read it, because he's told me so through a private message.

Reb, you're more then welcome for the record and I was happy to help out. Now you need to register with SP and collect those records DavidWW mentions.

Regards
Marilyn
Dogs leave paw prints on your heart.
Maxine Morning b. 23 April 1998 d. 14 Nov. 2008
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1718

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:56 pm

More !! .......

From the 1875 marriage for Alexr Baillie and Helen Kelly on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you have the names of Alexander's parents, and Helen's mother, - it looks like she was illegitimate.

A quick sidetrip to the LDS MyFamily.com website produces the following for Alexander's parents....

John Baillie, Mother: Margaret Agnew

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
ROBERT BAILEY - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 31 MAY 1855 Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland

ROBERT BAILLIE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 19 JUL 1857 Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland


Bingo :!: \:D/ as an 1855 birth register entry gives lots of extra info including the ages and places of birth of the parents.

It looks like pre-1855 births for this family either weren't made in the Old Parochial Registers of the Established Church of Scotland, - many weren't at that time, - or the records haven't survived (NB I didn't check this out on the more accurate OPR index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ), so that there's no apparent record for the ca. 1851 birth of Alexander.

Given the info on the 1855 birth record for Robert in terms of the ages of the parents, it's straightforward to find the family in the 1861 census at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (note the entry for No.10 :!: :!: ), and then to locate the death register entries for John BAILLIE and Margaret AGNEW, which give you the grandparents of Alexander .......

It may be possible to go back another generation in the statutory, census, and OPR records ............

As regards Helen KELL[Y/IE] her age in the 1875 marriage register entry implies a year of birth of 1856 or 1857, backed up by her declared age in 1881 of 24...........

From the 1881 census entry, her place of birth is Glasgow, and there's 6 possible births of a Mary KELL[Y/IE] in those two years.

But if there's more than one where the mother is Mary, and the birth is illegitimate, then it may not be possible to trace this line further.......... never mind if she declared an accurate age in 1875 :!:

Both Alexander and his father are shown as (stone)masons. It was very commonly the case that such an occupation led to extensive travel in connection with employment. That context could well explain the absence from home of Alexander in the 1900 and 1910 US censuses.

In all of the above, watch out for the spelling variations BAILLIE and BAIL[L]EY ............

David

LesleyB
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Post by LesleyB » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:04 pm

Hi Marilyn
Gee Lesley, I'm not sure what the problem is?
Me neither - would not work yesterday...but image is working OK today. I thought PCs were supposed to be logical :roll:

Best wishes
Lesley

Caroline
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm

Post by Caroline » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:12 pm

Hi Bob,

If you look up the 1851 census on this site

http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx

and search for BAILIE in Penninghame you should find a family that appears to be yours and if so Alexanders grandparents are listed!

Caroline
Hood, Nicholson, Strang, Taylor, Wallace - GLASGOW
Ritchie, Robertson, Smith, Summers - FIFE
Henderson, Montgomery, Rutherford - HAUGH OF URR
Hart, McAdam, Young - DUNBARTONSHIRE
Caldwell, Roberts - RENFREWSHIRE

LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:18 pm

Hi Marilyn
Gee Lesley, I'm not sure what the problem is?
Me neither - would not work yesterday...but image is working OK today. I thought PCs were supposed to be logical :roll:

Best wishes
Lesley

Reb
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Batavia (Cincinnati),Ohio USA

Baillie family

Post by Reb » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:12 pm

Caroline, thanks for this lead. I tried it and could not find the reference to Alexander's grandparents.

David, thanks for the clarification that might explain where Alexander was during the two census periods. I know that Robert Baillie, the sculptor, did work for Gutzon Borglum of Black Hills fame but that was in the late 20's. But maybe Alexander was doing similar work (at least I am hoping that is the anwer). His death record might show if he returned to NJ. Per the 1930 census, it appears that he died prior to it.

I again thank everyone for taking the time to help me with this search.

DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Re: Baillie family

Post by DavidWW » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:19 pm

Reb wrote:Caroline, thanks for this lead. I tried it and could not find the reference to Alexander's grandparents.

...snipped...........

I again thank everyone for taking the time to help me with this search.
Probably because you were searching for BAILLIE or BAILEY as the spelling, - it's neither, - use BAIL* instead, and restrict the search to Penninghame.

John's father Alexander survived until the introduction of civil registration in 1855, and John, as the informant, knew the names of his grandparents.

From John's father's place of birth in the 1851 census, you can also celebrate March 17th :!:

David

Caroline
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm

Re: Baillie family

Post by Caroline » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Reb wrote:Caroline, thanks for this lead. I tried it and could not find the reference to Alexander's grandparents.
Hi Bob

Try typing BAILIE in as the surname, then choose Penninghame as the parish and you should get Johns family in 1851. If it comes up with no results just go back and press the search button again, as sometimes this site doesn't always come up with the info on your first try.

Let me know how you get on!

Caroline
Hood, Nicholson, Strang, Taylor, Wallace - GLASGOW
Ritchie, Robertson, Smith, Summers - FIFE
Henderson, Montgomery, Rutherford - HAUGH OF URR
Hart, McAdam, Young - DUNBARTONSHIRE
Caldwell, Roberts - RENFREWSHIRE

Reb
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Batavia (Cincinnati),Ohio USA

Baillie family

Post by Reb » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:17 pm

Caroline/David,
I searched as you suggested and found a "Bailie" family that appears to be my ancestry and a John Bailie, age 71 being born in Ireland.

Is there a similar link to the 1861 census? If Alexander was born in 1852 or 1853, he would appear in the 1861 data base. That census would show if there were more children in this family.

Also, in your experience, would the name have originally been Bailie (with one L) and changed to double L later). I am trying to determine if the original family name was correctly spelled in 1851

Thanks again for the assistance. In one week, I compiled about 6 generations of information.

Regards, Bob Baillie