Hi Andy,
It would seem to a different Margaret (36) & Alexander McDONALD (5) in 1861 Milton.
But this John McDONALD is certainly born in the same area (as are many McDonalds...)
These from the indexes -
--
1851 cens 644-1 (537) Ed 30 p 7 (St George)
John McDONALD 25
Margaret 26
Mary 2
Duncan abt 1
Alexander 20 [John's brother?]
--
1861 cens 644-7 Ed 4 p 15 (Milton)
John McDONALD 35, b Sleat, INV
Margaret 36, b Sleat, INV
Mary 11, b Greenock, RFW
Duncan 9, b Glasgow, LKS
Donald 7, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexander 5, b Glasgow, LKS
John 3, b Glasgow, LKS
--and possibly at the same address--
Marion McDONALD DUFF, 37, b Sleat, INV
Jessie, 9, b Glasgow, LKS
William 5, b Glasgow, LKS
===============
You were asking,
> Is there any other place called Broadfoot?
Ans; can't see one, but there may well be (i'll check the name again - i may see it better with another look).
> But is this the right people?
Ans; aah, now you're asking! - i just don't know!
> Is there any way to find out the father of James and where he was from?
Ans; hopefully from his DC, and censuses from from 1861.
--
That's why i'd like to see Alexander (with parents) in the 1861 & 1871 censuses.
But i know the surname can be a tad difficult to search (i've also got McDonald ancestors - from Mull though).
--
This is the only possible Alexander, a joiner, i can see in Glasgow for 1881, but no guarantee it's the right man.
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: Model Lodging House 105 Hydepark Street
Source: FHL Film 0203668 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 89 Page 1
Alexander MACDONALD U 23 M Glasgow Rel: Lodger Occ: Joiner
--
Jack
McDonalds
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Pandabean
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Thanks again. I apologise if my posts sound quite rushed at times, I just get over excited lol.
Hmm I did manage to look at the census and I think I may have found a DC for Alexander (Post 1900). I ordered an extract of the marriage from 1850 (James and Margaret) So maybe that will reveal something.
I did try and look for a James McDonald in Skye (didn't know which parish though, Strath? ) but I could find no record. It does indeed look like "Broadford" in the census.
I found a possible match for James' DC 1870 - 1880 (Milton) but it seems that he was married to a Janet Johnston. Which is not the right one.
Thanks to you I did find Alexander's BC and it was the right one - parents Margaret Reid and James McDonald.
Is there anything else that we can do to try and track Alexander or James?
Hmm I did manage to look at the census and I think I may have found a DC for Alexander (Post 1900). I ordered an extract of the marriage from 1850 (James and Margaret) So maybe that will reveal something.
I did try and look for a James McDonald in Skye (didn't know which parish though, Strath? ) but I could find no record. It does indeed look like "Broadford" in the census.
I found a possible match for James' DC 1870 - 1880 (Milton) but it seems that he was married to a Janet Johnston. Which is not the right one.
Thanks to you I did find Alexander's BC and it was the right one - parents Margaret Reid and James McDonald.
Is there anything else that we can do to try and track Alexander or James?
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AndrewP
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If it helps any, Broadford was in Strath parish. The neighbouring parishes on Skye were Portree to the north and Sleat to the south.Pandabean wrote:I did try and look for a James McDonald in Skye (didn't know which parish though, Strath? ) but I could find no record. It does indeed look like "Broadford" in the census.
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
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Pandabean
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Thanks, but I couldnt find a match in Strath for around 1827 for James.
AndrewP wrote:If it helps any, Broadford was in Strath parish. The neighbouring parishes on Skye were Portree to the north and Sleat to the south.Pandabean wrote:I did try and look for a James McDonald in Skye (didn't know which parish though, Strath? ) but I could find no record. It does indeed look like "Broadford" in the census.
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
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Pandabean
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Where did you find this info? I never thought there was a short word for James.
I heard there was a centre in Armadale where you could search the records for the Island, would that be worth while do you think?
I heard there was a centre in Armadale where you could search the records for the Island, would that be worth while do you think?
AndrewP wrote:Could this be him? Listed as Jas. Wm. McDonald, born 03-Jun-1827, baptised 12-Nov-1827 Strath, Inverness-shire. Parents: Godfrey McDonald and Eliz. Montgomery in OPR batch C111192 on the online IGI. (C111192 = Strath baptisms 1815-1854)
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
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AndrewP
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Using Hugh Wallis's website, I found the batch number for Strath baptisms of the right timespan, then off to the online IGI. On the online IGI, input region = British Isles, and batch number = C111192, then search (no names or dates input).
That returns a long list (a few hundred) and by paging down until the McDonalds appear and looking, there he is, with his name made up of abbreviations Jas. Wm. McDonald in 1827. Checking thhat records gives the birth and baptism dates, and the parents' names.
Now the next part is for you to find other evidence that this is him, or not. Marriage and death certificates for him, and death certificates for the parents. Hopefully they all survived until at least 1855 and appear on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk .
Is the place on Skye that you have in mind this one?
http://www.clandonald.com/index.php/page/library/#grs
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
That returns a long list (a few hundred) and by paging down until the McDonalds appear and looking, there he is, with his name made up of abbreviations Jas. Wm. McDonald in 1827. Checking thhat records gives the birth and baptism dates, and the parents' names.
Now the next part is for you to find other evidence that this is him, or not. Marriage and death certificates for him, and death certificates for the parents. Hopefully they all survived until at least 1855 and appear on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk .
Is the place on Skye that you have in mind this one?
http://www.clandonald.com/index.php/page/library/#grs
All the best,
Andrew Paterson
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Jack
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McDonalds again
Hi Andy,
This has been sitting in a drafts folder for a wee while whilst i tried to find out more on your McDONALDs.
Been adding bits as i went along, but after your other post i thought i'd better send it on just now.
This McDonald family have been proving rather difficult to pin down! And still are....
Perhaps i should add that i don't know for certain if this is your Alexander, with an older brother James.
But he's the only one i can see in 1861 that might suit.
====
I know you already have some of the censuses and other things too - they're just to keep all this together.
James & Alexander are as gr-sons in 1861, but as sons in 1871....
Such a pity the Alexander in 1871 is as an apprentice lithographer, and not a joiner...!
But as he was only 14yrs old he may have changed trades?
--
JAMES MCDONALD
MARGARET REID
Marriage: 11 JAN 1850 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
--some children ?--
JOHN MCDONALD - Birth: 21 NOV 1850 Barony, Lanark, Scotland [can't see a DC 1855 - 1861]
JAMES McDONALD - Birth: possibly abt 1854, Glasgow
ALEXANDER MCDONALD - Birth: 17 DEC 1856 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
JANET MCDONALD - Birth: 21 OCT 1859 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
--
1851 cens 622 (573) Ed 9 p 1 (Barony - Milton)
550 Dobbies Loan.
James McDONALD, head, marr, 24, steam engine keeper, b Broadford, INV
Margaret MvDONALD, wife, marr, 27, --------------------b Glasgow, LKS
John McDONALD, son, 4mos, --------------------------b Glasgow, LKS
--
Your Alexander's wee sister Janet has died 8 SEP 1860 - parents NOT as deceased,
but i can't see any Poor Relief applications for any of the family.
Nor can i see any sure sighting of father James McDONALD - neither in the 1861 census, or a DC.
DC 1860. 644-1. 1390 (Central)
Janet McDONALD (10 mos) d. 8 SEP 1860 at the City Poorhouse, Glasgow.
pas - James McDONALD, labourer & Margaret REID.
Informant - John McPherson, Governor's clerk.
--
DC 1860. 644-1. 1458 (Central)
Margaret McDONALD (25) pauper, servant, d. 22 SEP 1860 at the City Poorhouse, Glasgow.
Married.
pas ______ REID & _____ ______
Informant - John McPherson, Governor's clerk.
=====
1861 cens 644-6 Ed 6 pp 13-14 (Blythswood - St. George)
127 New City Road.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 61, labourer, b Strath, INV
Janet McDONALD, wife, marr, 45, ---------b Stewarton, AYR
John McDONALD, son, 9, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
James McDONALD, gr-child, 6, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexr. McDONALD, gr-child, 4, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
Robert H SPEDDING, lodger, u/m 22, student, b England
John JACKSON, lodger, u/m 18, student, b England
John McSKIMMING, lodger, u/m 21, clerk (drapers), b Barr, AYR
William MATHIESON, lodger, u/m 19, joiner, b Strath, INV
John McLEOD, lodger, u/m 16, engine fitter, b Strath, INV
--
1871 cens 644-6 Ed 6 p 12 (St George)
127 New City Road.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 70, distiller, b Broadford, Isle of Skye
Janet McDONALD, wife, marr, 53, do's wife, b Stewarton, AYR
James McDONALD, son, 16, joiners apprentice, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexander McDONALD, son, 14, lithographers app, b Glasgow, LKS
Findlay McDONALD, boarder, u/m 24, manufacturers asst, b Broadford, Isle of Skye
--
1881 Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 154 Cumberland St
Source: FHL Film 0203675 GRO Ref Volume 644-12 EnumDist 54 Page 21
Janet MC DONALD W 63 F Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Housekeeper
John MC DONALD U 28 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Stone Cutter
John MC DONALD M 47 M Strath Parish Of, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Joiner
Marion MC DONALD U 19 F Strath Parish Of, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Dressmaker
John MC DONALD U 18 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Clerk
Wm. GREIN U 29 M Mortlach, Banff, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Brewer
[Janet now a widow, but i'm struggling to find hubby John's DC,
and IF James, who married Margaret Reid, is his son then Janet looks like a 2nd wife]
--
1891 cens 644-12 Ed 52 pp 1-2 (Tradeston)
154 Cumberland St.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 38, collector City Cleansing Dept, b Glasgow, LKS
Mary McDONALD, wife, marr, 28, ----------------------------------------b Glasgow, LKS
Jane McDONALD, gr-mother, widow, 75, formerly domestic servant, b Stewarton, AYR [shd be mother?]
William GREEN, lodger, u/m 39, distillery manager (unemployed), b Mortlach, BAN
==
DC 1894. 644-11. 237 (Hutchesontown)
Janet McDONALD [77] d. 10 MAR 1894 at 200 McNeil St, Glasgow.
widow of John McDONALD, ship carpenter.
pas - James BLAIR (dcd) excise officer & Catherine KELLY (dcd)
Infmt - John McDONALD, son, 149 Wolsely St, S.S.
[i'm rather unsure that this is the correct Janet from those earlier censuses]
[later - now major doubts after re-reading everything!]
[even later - i was right; i was wrong...
...see p.s. below]
==
The MC & DC of the above 16yr old (in 1871) James McDONALD might be worth tracing (can't see them so far).
There is this James in 1881, but whether he's the same James from 1861 & 1871 is another thing.
I don't know if he is Alexander's brother - but worthwhile eliminating if not.
As you know, Alexander on his 1885 MC to Maggie ADAMSON had a witness James McDONALD.
1881 Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 76 Watson St
Source: FHL Film 0203664 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 99 Page 17
James MC DONALD M 26 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Joiner
Johanna MC DONALD M 27 F Linlithgow, Linlithgow, Scotland Rel: Wife
[oddly i can't find a marriage, nor children for them...]
--
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: Model Lodging House 105 Hydepark Street
Source: FHL Film 0203668 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 89 Page 1
Alexander MACDONALD U 23 M Glasgow Rel: Lodger Occ: Joiner
--
Jack
=============
ps, back again Andy,
Here are, i think, the correct DCs, and John's surname started with Mac.
Ages are a wee bit out, but that does happen fairly often on DCs.
==
DC 1877. 644-12. 34 (Gorbals)
John MacDONALD (70) distillery labourer, d 12 JAN 1877 at 158 Hospital St, Glasgow.
Married -
1st - Marion McINNES
2nd - Janet SCOULAR
pas - Donald MacDONALD (dcd) farm labourer & Ann McKENZIE (dcd)
Infmt - John MacDONALD, son, 16 Abercorn St, Glasgow.
--
DC 1895. 644-8. 113. (Milton)
Janet McDONALD (70) d 1 FEB 1895 at 17 Church Place, Glasgow.
Widow of John McDONALD, distillery maltman.
pas - Joseph SCOULAR (dcd) grain miller & Isabella BRODIE (dcd)
Infmt - Alexr. SCOULAR, brother, 34 Susannah St, Alexandria.
==
Still can't see a suitable James McDONALD & Johanna in 1891 or 1901, nor a marriage or children.
Possibly left Scotland?
But even if we did find James in 1891 & 1901, there is still no direct link to Alexander,
and even if both ARE the sons of James McDONALD & Margaret REID,
it doesn't mean for sure that it is them in those censuses.
A slight connection is that a James & Alexander were reared by their GF John McDONALD from Broadford, Skye.
(same place that their possible father James in 1851 says he was born)
--
So really still no further forward at all in finding for sure who your Alexander's father James' father was.
Just some fairish circumstantial evidence - but no actual proof.
I'd dearly hoped that a James could be found with the same parents as Alexander.
This would've at least boosted the chances that it was them together in 1861 & 1871.
==
This has been sitting in a drafts folder for a wee while whilst i tried to find out more on your McDONALDs.
Been adding bits as i went along, but after your other post i thought i'd better send it on just now.
This McDonald family have been proving rather difficult to pin down! And still are....
Perhaps i should add that i don't know for certain if this is your Alexander, with an older brother James.
But he's the only one i can see in 1861 that might suit.
====
I know you already have some of the censuses and other things too - they're just to keep all this together.
James & Alexander are as gr-sons in 1861, but as sons in 1871....
Such a pity the Alexander in 1871 is as an apprentice lithographer, and not a joiner...!
But as he was only 14yrs old he may have changed trades?
--
JAMES MCDONALD
MARGARET REID
Marriage: 11 JAN 1850 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
--some children ?--
JOHN MCDONALD - Birth: 21 NOV 1850 Barony, Lanark, Scotland [can't see a DC 1855 - 1861]
JAMES McDONALD - Birth: possibly abt 1854, Glasgow
ALEXANDER MCDONALD - Birth: 17 DEC 1856 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
JANET MCDONALD - Birth: 21 OCT 1859 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
--
1851 cens 622 (573) Ed 9 p 1 (Barony - Milton)
550 Dobbies Loan.
James McDONALD, head, marr, 24, steam engine keeper, b Broadford, INV
Margaret MvDONALD, wife, marr, 27, --------------------b Glasgow, LKS
John McDONALD, son, 4mos, --------------------------b Glasgow, LKS
--
Your Alexander's wee sister Janet has died 8 SEP 1860 - parents NOT as deceased,
but i can't see any Poor Relief applications for any of the family.
Nor can i see any sure sighting of father James McDONALD - neither in the 1861 census, or a DC.
DC 1860. 644-1. 1390 (Central)
Janet McDONALD (10 mos) d. 8 SEP 1860 at the City Poorhouse, Glasgow.
pas - James McDONALD, labourer & Margaret REID.
Informant - John McPherson, Governor's clerk.
--
DC 1860. 644-1. 1458 (Central)
Margaret McDONALD (25) pauper, servant, d. 22 SEP 1860 at the City Poorhouse, Glasgow.
Married.
pas ______ REID & _____ ______
Informant - John McPherson, Governor's clerk.
=====
1861 cens 644-6 Ed 6 pp 13-14 (Blythswood - St. George)
127 New City Road.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 61, labourer, b Strath, INV
Janet McDONALD, wife, marr, 45, ---------b Stewarton, AYR
John McDONALD, son, 9, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
James McDONALD, gr-child, 6, scholar, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexr. McDONALD, gr-child, 4, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
Robert H SPEDDING, lodger, u/m 22, student, b England
John JACKSON, lodger, u/m 18, student, b England
John McSKIMMING, lodger, u/m 21, clerk (drapers), b Barr, AYR
William MATHIESON, lodger, u/m 19, joiner, b Strath, INV
John McLEOD, lodger, u/m 16, engine fitter, b Strath, INV
--
1871 cens 644-6 Ed 6 p 12 (St George)
127 New City Road.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 70, distiller, b Broadford, Isle of Skye
Janet McDONALD, wife, marr, 53, do's wife, b Stewarton, AYR
James McDONALD, son, 16, joiners apprentice, b Glasgow, LKS
Alexander McDONALD, son, 14, lithographers app, b Glasgow, LKS
Findlay McDONALD, boarder, u/m 24, manufacturers asst, b Broadford, Isle of Skye
--
1881 Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 154 Cumberland St
Source: FHL Film 0203675 GRO Ref Volume 644-12 EnumDist 54 Page 21
Janet MC DONALD W 63 F Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Housekeeper
John MC DONALD U 28 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son Occ: Stone Cutter
John MC DONALD M 47 M Strath Parish Of, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Joiner
Marion MC DONALD U 19 F Strath Parish Of, Inverness, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Dressmaker
John MC DONALD U 18 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Clerk
Wm. GREIN U 29 M Mortlach, Banff, Scotland Rel: Lodger Occ: Brewer
[Janet now a widow, but i'm struggling to find hubby John's DC,
and IF James, who married Margaret Reid, is his son then Janet looks like a 2nd wife]
--
1891 cens 644-12 Ed 52 pp 1-2 (Tradeston)
154 Cumberland St.
John McDONALD, head, marr, 38, collector City Cleansing Dept, b Glasgow, LKS
Mary McDONALD, wife, marr, 28, ----------------------------------------b Glasgow, LKS
Jane McDONALD, gr-mother, widow, 75, formerly domestic servant, b Stewarton, AYR [shd be mother?]
William GREEN, lodger, u/m 39, distillery manager (unemployed), b Mortlach, BAN
==
DC 1894. 644-11. 237 (Hutchesontown)
Janet McDONALD [77] d. 10 MAR 1894 at 200 McNeil St, Glasgow.
widow of John McDONALD, ship carpenter.
pas - James BLAIR (dcd) excise officer & Catherine KELLY (dcd)
Infmt - John McDONALD, son, 149 Wolsely St, S.S.
[i'm rather unsure that this is the correct Janet from those earlier censuses]
[later - now major doubts after re-reading everything!]
[even later - i was right; i was wrong...
...see p.s. below]==
The MC & DC of the above 16yr old (in 1871) James McDONALD might be worth tracing (can't see them so far).
There is this James in 1881, but whether he's the same James from 1861 & 1871 is another thing.
I don't know if he is Alexander's brother - but worthwhile eliminating if not.
As you know, Alexander on his 1885 MC to Maggie ADAMSON had a witness James McDONALD.
1881 Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 76 Watson St
Source: FHL Film 0203664 GRO Ref Volume 644-9 EnumDist 99 Page 17
James MC DONALD M 26 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Joiner
Johanna MC DONALD M 27 F Linlithgow, Linlithgow, Scotland Rel: Wife
[oddly i can't find a marriage, nor children for them...]
--
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: Model Lodging House 105 Hydepark Street
Source: FHL Film 0203668 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 89 Page 1
Alexander MACDONALD U 23 M Glasgow Rel: Lodger Occ: Joiner
--
Jack
=============
ps, back again Andy,
Here are, i think, the correct DCs, and John's surname started with Mac.
Ages are a wee bit out, but that does happen fairly often on DCs.
==
DC 1877. 644-12. 34 (Gorbals)
John MacDONALD (70) distillery labourer, d 12 JAN 1877 at 158 Hospital St, Glasgow.
Married -
1st - Marion McINNES
2nd - Janet SCOULAR
pas - Donald MacDONALD (dcd) farm labourer & Ann McKENZIE (dcd)
Infmt - John MacDONALD, son, 16 Abercorn St, Glasgow.
--
DC 1895. 644-8. 113. (Milton)
Janet McDONALD (70) d 1 FEB 1895 at 17 Church Place, Glasgow.
Widow of John McDONALD, distillery maltman.
pas - Joseph SCOULAR (dcd) grain miller & Isabella BRODIE (dcd)
Infmt - Alexr. SCOULAR, brother, 34 Susannah St, Alexandria.
==
Still can't see a suitable James McDONALD & Johanna in 1891 or 1901, nor a marriage or children.
Possibly left Scotland?
But even if we did find James in 1891 & 1901, there is still no direct link to Alexander,
and even if both ARE the sons of James McDONALD & Margaret REID,
it doesn't mean for sure that it is them in those censuses.
A slight connection is that a James & Alexander were reared by their GF John McDONALD from Broadford, Skye.
(same place that their possible father James in 1851 says he was born)
--
So really still no further forward at all in finding for sure who your Alexander's father James' father was.
Just some fairish circumstantial evidence - but no actual proof.
I'd dearly hoped that a James could be found with the same parents as Alexander.
This would've at least boosted the chances that it was them together in 1861 & 1871.
==
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Pandabean
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Thank you so much, just noticed this post. Maybe I need glasses after all.
You seem to have done a lot of work on the McDonalds here.
The margaret McDonald's DC that you have has the age out by roughly 10 years. So is it possible that this is not her but then you have to ask where is she then. I cannot find any other Margaret Reid McDonalds in this area.
The main thing that is confusing me is why James and Margaret would "abandon" the children with their grandparents and then disapear themselves. The strange thing is it is so hard to trace James down especially in the Glasgow area.
The next question is, what happened to John who was born after they married? Did he die before 1855? This would be a real shame as it would have been one of the main links to prove it.
You seem to have done a lot of work on the McDonalds here.
The margaret McDonald's DC that you have has the age out by roughly 10 years. So is it possible that this is not her but then you have to ask where is she then. I cannot find any other Margaret Reid McDonalds in this area.
The main thing that is confusing me is why James and Margaret would "abandon" the children with their grandparents and then disapear themselves. The strange thing is it is so hard to trace James down especially in the Glasgow area.
The next question is, what happened to John who was born after they married? Did he die before 1855? This would be a real shame as it would have been one of the main links to prove it.