Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Looking for Scottish Ancestors

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jemhay
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: Of Scottish/English Heritage, living in Canada

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by jemhay » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:49 pm

Hi again everyone :D

It's been a very long time since I had cause to be here at Talking Scot, but I'm so excited about recent developments, I just had to share it! I also wanted to take the opportunity to say thanks again to all of you for helping me out so much in the past. In return, I would very much like to offer help to anyone with English records or brick walls south of the border anyone might have. I am far from 'expert', but have become quite experienced ( :lol: ) at finding the sneaky ones that don't seem to want to be found. So please, feel free to fire away either here, or send a message - whatever works for you :) I would dearly love to be able to repay the kindness that I have been shown.

As for my update: I started out in 2000 (ish) knowing only my great grandfather's name was Colin and that he was in the police force and knowing pretty much nothing about genealogy. I should mention at this point that my drive to begin research only really took off in 2003 upon my dear dad's all too sudden death (but even then there wasn't an awful lot available online to those of us far away). I knew Dad had always wanted to research his family history and was very curious about it. So, his passing urged me to get to it on his behalf - a sort of tribute to him if you like; having no idea of the passion it would become for me. Well, after almost ten years, a few false starts and some help from the wonderful people here, I finally found him (Colin). Anyway, after much digging and ordering of certificates etc, I now have his entire life story and that of his wife and almost all their children from birth to death. Then, it was how on earth do I get past him and find more about his father, Kenneth? He's still quite a mystery, but less so and I'm slowly getting there thanks to a recent connection....

About a couple of weeks ago, I received a response to a message I'd posted years ago about Colin on the boards at Ancestry from a lady saying that she was also a gt, gt grand daughter of his, via one of his daughters. I was very excited - then as we began exchanging information, she gave me the icing on the cake, a photograph of my gt gt grandfather Colin Mackenzie the police Inspector and his wife Esther! When I opened the file, I was so stunned it made me cry. He is the spitting image of my dad, not just a close look alike, it could "be" him! As you can imagine, I was (and still am) thrilled! I just wish I could share it with Dad...

It turns out she has a box full of photos and documents, including letters from his brother Kenneth (whom I had no clue about) in Scotland to Colin in London, discussing the estate of their recently deceased brother (Donald, a Solicitor and Justice of the Peace who lived in Portree, Inverness - for whom I had a name and tentative birth date only). From these few snippets of information, including the date of the letters (1873), the location they came from (Stornoway) and some of the contents, I was able to find Donald and his family on the Census and their birth/marriage/death certificates at SP and also his will. Then, thanks to another 1940's letter from her grandmother (Colin's daughter) to her mother, I was able to ascertain that Kenneth was a half brother as in the letter, she told how she believed that Colin's mother died giving birth to him, and that Kenneth's mother was Christina MUNRO. Sure enough, I found a matching marriage between Kenneth senior and a Christian MUNRO in Inverness, and they had two more sons, William and Kenneth! :D All this led to me finding Kenneth junior and his family and also his will - he was a "Bank Agent" in Stornoway with the National Bank (now RBC). I learned that his daughter Alexandra Marion McKENZIE married a self made millionaire, John BULLOUGH from Accrington, Lancashire and lived in Meggernie Castle in Perthshire!! What a find! Turns out he he owned a cotton mill and was also the largest cotton mill machinery manufacturer in the world (Howard & Bullough). He also owned the Isle of Rum, which on his death he passed to his son George who became Sir George BULLOUGH 1st Baronet and he was responsible for building Kinloch Castle on Rum! His other son, John, inherited the Meggernie estate. John BULLOUGH senior whose will I also found at SP, left an estate of 1.25 Million pounds in 1891 (which is apparently about 40 million pounds by todays standards :shock: ). Why, oh why, wasn't HE my gt, gt granddad?? :lol:

I never dreamed I'd ever be one to make these kinds of connections in my tree - it always happened to other people. But it just goes to show you never know what you might find with patience (waiting is not one of my strengths..lol)! :D

Finally, I got confirmation from Kenneth juniors death that his father was indeed a Tailor after all. I don't know how/why/where the Soldier stuff came from (son Colin's marriage), maybe he was one for a while like a lot of men were. But he was consistently a "Taylor"/"Tailor" on all other records - both marriages and all his childrens baptisms that I can find so far; and then on son Kenneth's death, he is listed as a Master Clothier (but on son Donald's he's a "Tradesman"?!) With that in mind - does anyone know if (and how) it's possible to find any records relating to him and his business seeing as he maybe had a shop in Inverness? I have googled, but haven't found anything conclusive. Also can't find his death. I think he was still alive on the 1841 with "Christy" as a "Tailor" in Inverness - but how can I be sure it's him? I'm now stuck as to how to move backwards from this point with records becoming so sparse :?
Researching M(a)ck(ie)nzie from Middlesex and Scotland. Sarge(a)nt from Gloucestershire and Berkshire. Hayward (wood) from Warwickshire and Northamptonshire. Davies, Evans, Griffiths and Morgan in Glamorgan.

Alan SHARP
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:41 pm
Location: Waikato, New Zealand

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by Alan SHARP » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:43 pm

Greetings jemhay from NZ.

Have you tried the Inverness Business Directories ? I have found the ones listed by “currie” very interesting. This is the link for the Inverness ones.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... pe%3Atexts

Happy hunting,

Alan SHARP.

P.S. Upon checking that the link worked, I see these ones do NOT go as far back as the Glasgow ones do, however it would not surprise me if there were not some local directories published 1800 - 1840's. Others on the forum or local history archives (Library) will know.

nelmit
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by nelmit » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:31 pm

There is a will at SP of a Kenneth Mackenzie,'Tailor in Inverness' indexed at SP in 1815. Only you can decide if it's worth spending the £5 to see if it gives any clues.

Regards,
Annette

jemhay
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: Of Scottish/English Heritage, living in Canada

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by jemhay » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:11 pm

nelmit wrote:There is a will at SP of a Kenneth Mackenzie,'Tailor in Inverness' indexed at SP in 1815. Only you can decide if it's worth spending the £5 to see if it gives any clues.

Regards,
Annette
Thanks Annette, but I don't think that can be him, because he married for the second time in 1815 and had two more sons - the youngest in 1822.
Researching M(a)ck(ie)nzie from Middlesex and Scotland. Sarge(a)nt from Gloucestershire and Berkshire. Hayward (wood) from Warwickshire and Northamptonshire. Davies, Evans, Griffiths and Morgan in Glamorgan.

jemhay
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: Of Scottish/English Heritage, living in Canada

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by jemhay » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:13 pm

Alan SHARP wrote:Greetings jemhay from NZ.

Have you tried the Inverness Business Directories ? I have found the ones listed by “currie” very interesting. This is the link for the Inverness ones.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... pe%3Atexts

Happy hunting,

Alan SHARP.

P.S. Upon checking that the link worked, I see these ones do NOT go as far back as the Glasgow ones do, however it would not surprise me if there were not some local directories published 1800 - 1840's. Others on the forum or local history archives (Library) will know.
Thank you Alan! That absorbed most of my afternoon...lol fascinating stuff! :)
Researching M(a)ck(ie)nzie from Middlesex and Scotland. Sarge(a)nt from Gloucestershire and Berkshire. Hayward (wood) from Warwickshire and Northamptonshire. Davies, Evans, Griffiths and Morgan in Glamorgan.

Currie
Posts: 3924
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Stuck with cross border Mackenzie's.....

Post by Currie » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:56 am

Hello Jemhay,

In “The Book of English Trades,” published 1818, there’s a chapter on Tailoring. You’ll see that there may have been a shop but most within were just working away as employees. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wWg ... 22&f=false

On the 1841 Census, there’s a Donald Munro, a few years younger than Christy, and also born outside the County, living with the McKenzie’s in Huntly Street, Inverness. It’s unfortunate that relationships weren’t then included. Maybe you could follow him up.

The trouble with finding rich ancestors is that it’s usually too late. But I wouldn’t swap your GGGF, Mr Bullough is probably still struggling to get through the proverbial eye of the proverbial needle.

It looks like he got the Meggernie property pretty cheaply, only £103,000. According to “1889 [C.5807] Wages.--Textile trades. Return of rates of wages in the principal textile trades of the United Kingdom” the approximate average annual wages in 1885 for UK textile workers, to the nearest £, was: Men £66, Lads and Boys £24, Women £40, and Girls £18.

The Dundee Courier & Argus, Saturday, September 29, 1883
SALE OF A PERTHSHIRE ESTATE.—On Thursday, before a large gathering of sportsmen, estate agents, factors, and others interested in the purchase of landed property in the Highlands of Scotland, Mr Walton (Messrs Lee & Walton, auctioneers) offered for sale, at the mart in Tokenhouse Yard, Manchester, the freehold baronial and sporting domain of Meggernie, which the auctioneer described as one of the finest properties submitted to public competition in England or Scotland during the present year. It is situated in the Highlands of Perthshire, in the valley of Glen Lyon, 22 miles from Aberfeldy, and including, besides the fine old Highland residence of Meggernie Castle, an area of about 32,129 acres of arable and pasture land. The shooting and fishing on the estate, which represented an area of over 50 square miles, were described as second to none in Scotland. The biddings commenced with an offer of £90,000, which by increments of £1000 gradually advanced to £103,000, beyond which figure intending purchasers did not seem inclined to venture. The property was knocked down at that sum to Mr Bullogh of Accrington, Lancashire, the auctioneer remarking that he had made an exceedingly cheap purchase.

All the best,
Alan