Helen Cheyne born Kintore 1886 ** birthday bumped post **

[Currie]

Thanks Sarah,

I can’t see the photographer rubber stamping all his photographs with the new address for too many years after having left the old one before January 1878. His advertising in Aberdeen seems to have fizzled out by mid 1878. I might have another look at that to see if there is anything later.

I thought there may have been something significant about No 115 because when I was searching the papers the McPherson, Simpson and Cheyne names came up one after the other.

Alan

[imlincs]

If the photo shows William Simpson born Forgue 1831, that would, by a rapid calculation!, make him 50 in 1881 which would, from Alan and Sarah's deductions, tie nicely in with the photograph.

My grandmother was, I was assured, a redhead when young and my mother referred to her own hair colour as auburn (diluted down to light brown when it reached me - diluted even further now of course!).

At this point, it's difficult to see the 1881 Aberdeen Cheynes having anything other than the name in common with Helen's father.

I'm a bit concerned about Christina Simpson/McCurragh having two children by two different fathers before marrying and going on to have a further family. Was this commonplace at the time? The same reservation applies to Christina #1 in earlier posts who also had (if she were to be Helen's mother) two children by different fathers before becoming Mrs Cooper. In her case too she would have been mid-30s and still unmarried when having Helen and also her husband would appear to have taken on one but not both of her earlier children. Maybe I'm just naif but isn't that, in both cases, abit odd?

Ian
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[Susan]

Hi Ian

It would not be that unusual for someone having 2 or 3 or even more children before marrying. I have come across that many times. Sometimes these children are taken on by the new husband, other times not.

Remember that in Scottish farming the workers (the young single male farm servants especially), moved as often as twice a year from farm to farm. Whitsun (May) and Martinmas (November) were the main term (quarter) days when rents fell due, leases were renewed and servants paid and hired, so there was a lot of movement of people from farm to farm.
If you look at various census records there can be grandparents with any number of grandchildren staying with them, often long term, belonging to one or more of their children.
The most I have come across, is my partner's ggg grandmother who had 5 children to different fathers before marrying at the age of 30 and having a further 3 children. Some of her older children stayed with the new family whilst others stayed with the grandparents.

Susan.

[Currie]

Hello Susan,

That reminds me of something I read about illegitimate births in Scotland. If it’s relevant I’ll post a link, but regarding the photographer:

Mr McPherson’s last advertisement in the Aberdeen Weekly Journal that I can find was at the end of June. On 1st August 1878 a new advertisement appeared stating that John Mac Mahon has opened a New Photographic Studio at 9 Union Row, Aberdeen, “one of the most elegant and commodious studios in the north of Scotland”

Maybe that’s why Mr McPherson and his studio disappeared off the Radar.

Alan

[SarahND]

I thought there may have been something significant about No 115 because when I was searching the papers the McPherson, Simpson and Cheyne names came up one after the other.

Yes, it does seem too much of a coincidence, doesn't it? Perhaps there is a link we haven't found yet.

At this point, it's difficult to see the 1881 Aberdeen Cheynes having anything other than the name in common with Helen's father.

A relief! I should think you'd be glad to disown George! Doesn't sound like a very nice character.

Regards,
Sarah

[imlincs]

Hello Alan

If McPherson was gone by August 1878 and the photo is of the William Simpson we are now discussing, that would make him a maximum of 47 if he were one of the very last customers of this studio and maybe a little younger than that.

I wonder how it came into my grandmother's possession. Why on earth I didn't ask her I'll never know!

Ian
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[Currie]

Hello Ian,

I think most of us would have to plead guilty to not asking the same sorts of questions.

I remember looking into a mirror once and seeing a beard greying exactly like his at almost exactly that age. There is no guarantee that the photographer was not still operating in some capacity but I wasn’t able to find any evidence of him advertising his wares after June ‘78. But if he wasn’t gone by then he probably wouldn’t have been too far from it.

There’s much about illegitimacy and comparisons to other places etc. in the First Detailed Annual Report of the Registrar General of BDM in Scotland. It is actually the report on the 1855 year so it would probably be more detailed than subsequent years. The 1855 report was 5 years late in arriving but there were detailed reports each year after that and presumably they caught up. It’s very easy to read if downloaded. Births start on p.181, Marriages on p.187 and Deaths on p.189. The Parliamentary Paper this was extracted from also includes a huge number of tables.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=K7k ... 4-PA181,M1

All the best,
Alan

[AnneM]

Ian

If you have an address for Margaret Kennedy in 1947 have you considered advertising in a newspaper covering the area in which she lived asking for descendents or relatives to get in touch. You might get lucky on that. I'm sure you can do that sort of thing by email these days.

Anne

[imlincs]

Hello Anne

Good idea - I'll get on to it right away.

Ian
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[imlincs]

Here goes again

This may be a little convoluted but it seems to me that, with all the help I’ve received here, I (we) may be closing in on the right Christina. There are still missing links as you will see.

Margaret Kennedy living in New Westminster (Vancouver) in 1947 wrote to my mother asking about me and my then recent birth. She signed off as “Your Cousin”. In the letter she writes, “How is Mrs Hossack’s Kathleen and her son also Aunt Maggie, give me the news when you write”.

I have unearthed a letter addressed to my mother dated Feb 1948 from Kathleen P**** (nee Hossack) living at 88 Clifton Road, Aberdeen. I also have a newspaper cutting (left by my mother) with a picture of Kathleen Hossack and A***** P***, both of Aberdeen, after their wedding at the Caledonian Hotel, Aberdeen. (I can post this if anyone thinks it may help). In the letter Kathleen talks of her son A**** being “4 on the ** ** (1948)”. I haven’t yet been able to trace a birth record for Kathleen Hossack but (and this is the interesting bit) I have found a marriage in 1924 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen City between George Hossack and Susan Gatt Simpson. In 1901 Susan Gatt Simpson (and it’s difficult to believe that there were lots of them) aged 1 was living at Mill of Littlemile, Auchterless where her grandfather William Simpson aged 68 was “corn miller” assisted by his son Robert (37) who had been with him in 1871 but not 1881, according to Annette. Potential Aunt Maggie, Margaret Simpson now aged 23 is also there listed as a domestic servant rather than “daughter”. She would appear to be the right sort of age to be Aunt Maggie (or possibly great Aunt Maggie to Kathleen Hossack, Margaret Kennedy and my mother). Following up on Susan’s point about unmarried ladies being referred to as “missus” this would fit in with this version of Aunt Maggie too.

I have also found another picture of the real Aunt Maggie with my mother (who looks to me about 17-19 dating the picture to 1937-9). She looks considerably older than the lady in the group photo I have already posted and does not appear to be wearing a wedding ring (this may or may not be significant and also the photo is slightly faded). Again I can post the picture if anyone thinks it might help.

The missing links:

1. Margaret Kennedy was living at 174 E 12th Ave in 1947 with John Kennedy a penitentiary guard (a very helpful person on Rootschat checked the City Directories for me). I haven’t yet been able to trace their marriage or Margaret’s birth in Canada (there was a marriage between a Margaret Cochran and a John Kennedy in 1930 but this Margaret Cochran was born in 1901 apparently in Scotland – the family emigrated to Canada in 1909/10 – but I can’t find her or her family (father David, mother Margaret and brother Thomas) in Scotland in 1901 and anyway I thinks this is probably a red herring!) So I don't know the link between Margaret Kennedy and the Simpson family.
2. I can’t link Kathleen Hossack with certainty to Susan Gatt Simpson.

I’ve tried to stick to essentials but I seem to have rambled on a bit so I’ll leave those of you still interested to offer any further thoughts or suggestions you may have.

Ian
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