WDYTYA

[AnneM]

Hi All

Did any of the Brit residents feel a bit disappointed by this programme last night? There was an awful lot of stuff omitted and conclusions drawn that did not seem necessarily justified e.g. that Edward and Emma Stafford did not exist or were not the parents of the child being baptised, Emma junior.

In fact although the person giving the info on the 1851 census did not know where Emma Stafford junior was born, her birthplace is given variously as Croydon or London on the other censuses, which suggests she was born in London and moved to Croydon at a very early age. One of my husband's ancestors has the same thing having been born in London and moved to Oxford very young. In addition there is a Herbert Stafford, her nephew, born New South Wales with the family in the 1871 census who was never mentioned. The general impression that the programme wanted to give was that she had no family which is clearly not the case.

Anne

[nelmit]

Hi All

Did any of the Brit residents feel a bit disappointed by this programme last night? There was an awful lot of stuff omitted and conclusions drawn that did not seem necessarily justified e.g. that Edward and Emma Stafford did not exist or were not the parents of the child being baptised, Emma junior.

In fact although the person giving the info on the 1851 census did not know where Emma Stafford junior was born, her birthplace is given variously as Croydon or London on the other censuses, which suggests she was born in London and moved to Croydon at a very early age. One of my husband's ancestors has the same thing having been born in London and moved to Oxford very young. In addition there is a Herbert Stafford, her nephew, born New South Wales with the family in the 1871 census who was never mentioned. The general impression that the programme wanted to give was that she had no family which is clearly not the case.

Anne

I kind of felt the same Anne, so much so I searched for her birth (sad case that I am) and found -

EMMA STAFFORD
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 29 JUL 1827 Saint John The Baptist, Croydon, Surrey, England

Parents:
Father: EDWARD STAFFORD Family
Mother: EMMA

Still, I suppose it wouldn't make good viewing without a wee bit of mystery at the beginning of the programme.

Regards,
Annette M

[Russell]

Hi Anne

I was most disappointed by the whole thing. It all seemed so contrived and theatrical. Oddly, John Hurt was least theatrical.
Several of their conclusions were leaps in the dark and they never did try to explore the most interesting maternal thread.
If I were offered 100 guineas to register a child in my name then given financial support to bring up the child as my own for a few years I would probably have called it whatever they wanted and told a few porky pies.
The Ward of Chancery claim was never really even investigated far less explored.
The presentation might well have put some would-be-genealogists off. especially when they discover just how difficult some of these searches were.

Russell

[AnneM]

You are sad indeed but not quite as sad as me. I discovered that the joker Walter Lord Browne was educated at a school on the Isle of Man and that he had a grandson also called Walter Lord Browne who was a chemist and who lived to be 100. That would make a reasonable story!

Anne

[Jamboesque]

I think the point of the programme was to indicate that pre-conceived ideas about famous/well-to-do ancestors may well not be the reality the subject discovers and doing a family history is fraught with possible nay probable disappointments.

John Hurt was certainly disappointed and possibly bitter to discover that his ancestor either female or male was not from an Irish bloodline was very apparent and I wonder if he now regrets getting involved in the program.

I kept shouting at the TV (in a metaphorical manner, the neighbours might have had something to say otherwise) “You can’t make that assumption, check the census” or “what does the Marriage Certificate say” or some other remark.

I thought the previous weeks episode with Natasha Kaplinski was fascinating and having read the article in the Scotland on Sunday which went further to explain certain areas of the story makes fascinating reading.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sp ... 1382192007
(you might need to register to see it!)

The section of the program about her family history in Belarus was heavily sanitized for the TV, one could hardly imagine the horror of finding that kind of stuff out and having to respond for the camera.

It was certainly interesting to compare the conclusions of the two programs so far. As I stated above John Hurt was disappointed to find that his preconceived view was not what it was and yet for all the horrors that was visited on Natasha Kaplinski’s family she was resolute and found strength in her belief that she and her section of the family were survivors.

I’ll be tuning in next week for Gryff Rees Jones

[joette]

Agree with all the points & they never even touched on the other side of the family which may have provided his longed for Irish blood.
It may simply have been she was Emma Stafford,parents died & left a few bob & she became a Ward of Chancery-not all were Illegitimate some were orphans.Maybe I have read Jane Eyre too often but when he said she must have had a happy life there to remain/return as a teacher I almost exploded.Not much choice for females in those days.
I did enjoy Natasha Kaplinsky's episode she has a very colourful family history not just the WW2 part but the SA connections etc.I cried my eyes out especially as I know that a "connection" in my tree was one who inflicted these crimes & boasted of it .Possibly in that area too.
Looking forward to the Pinsett one where they claim to have traced his line back to William the Conqueror Complete with birth lines will that be?

[claudette]

Hi everyone

I also was most disappointed with the WDYTYA on John Hurt. I did feel that the program concentrated solely on trying to prove/disprove this link to the Marquis of Sligo and didn't look at any other aspect of John Hurt's ancestors. Maybe John Hurt was prepared to do the programme only if they followed this line - who knows?

However, in retrospect I feel a little sorry for John Hurt, because not only does it appear that he is probably not related to Irish aristocracy after all, but also Walter Lord Browne didn't come across as an ancestor you could be proud of. John Hurt may well now regret agreeing to do the programme and would have preferred to live in blissful ignorance of the truth!

The best WDYTYAs for me are the ones who follow several different ancestors often from both paternal and maternal sides. Often the people I don't think I will enjoy prove to have absolutely fascinating forebears.

I think that anyone researching their ancestors has to be open to whatever might be found, because who knows what skeletons might suddenly appear in any of our closets! Or, as John Hurt has found, family stories passed down through the generations may be just that - stories.

I was absolutely mesmerised by Natasha Kiplinsky's WDYTYA. I am full of admiration for how she dealt with all that came to light - I just hope that she and all her family are able to come to terms with the family's recent past.

I do think it very harsh to have to learn such awful details while on camera, in the way Natasha Kaplinsky had to. It was good she had her cousin with her, even though it was the first time she had met him. There are times when I feel like a voyeur, which makes me uncomfortable, but at the same time, I can't turn the tv off because it's so interesting.

I also am looking forward to Griff Rhys Jones's WDYTYA - but then I look forward to them all!

Best wishes to you all
Claudette

[Montrose Budie]

Hmmmm..... I'd argue that, in its own way, this John Burt episode was a good one....

I'd argue that it was a good episode indeed, but fascinating in that it appeared to be the exception to one of my "Golden Rules" of genealogical research, this being that there is virtually always at least a grain of truth in such family stories, but here it would appear that the Irish link was purely imaginary!

What I felt was particularly good about the production was the way in which it started out on the basis that there was at least some truth in the connection to the Irish aristocracy, but instead of going direct to the two trees that were produced near the end, - in which case the programme would have lasted all of 10 minutes maximum, - it took us down all the byways chasing up connections that turned out to be false that is so typical of such a search, but which still produced info and experiences of value.

And that includes the meeting with his aunt where there was a brilliant example of how information can be distorted over just two generations especially when it's transmitted via several people (WWI trenches example, - message received "Send 3/6d, we're going to a dance", - message transmitted "Send reinforcements, we're going to advance" !!)

I particularly liked the newspaper marriage announcement "promotion" for the father, - I'm come across many such on death certificates but relatively few on marriage records, - on (Scottish) death register entries there's a large number of engine drivers but a worrying lack of firemen !!.

The production team also have to be congratulated on the sensitivity with which they handled John's increasing confusion and disappointment as the programme developed and the chances of the aristocratic Irish connection eventually faded away to nothing..........

With hindsight, what he should obviously have done in the beginning was to develop the two trees that were produced just before the end of the programme; but isn't that so typical of what I'm certain many of us must have done of many occasions?, - shooting off in all sorts of directions, believing info that we have which we're sure is correct, rather than stopping and having a dispassionate review of the situation...........

OK, in the view of those of us who have some expertise, it should have been made clearer that the whole approach used wasn't the ideal way to research his tree, - especially for the majority of viewers with no expertise, - but that's our advantage; and, hopefully, such viewers will have learnt the lesson that not all such family tales can be relied on, and that the ideal way to research a tree is not necessarily to rely on such a tale; however much this may not have been made obvious in this episode.............

mb

[mallog]

.Maybe I have read Jane Eyre too often but when he said she must have had a happy life there to remain/return as a teacher I almost exploded.

My reaction too !! I've missed the series so far and only managed to see the second half of John Hurt's one so I'm already looking for the repeats

[Muriel]

Sometimes the programmes make it look as if the research is very easy - just turn up, turn a few pages of an index & there is great-aunt Youfamey (yes, I found that one on a census!). It was good see a programme which showed that there are problems & I guess there are some other people wondering about Edward & Emma Stafford too.

Muriel