Puzzling over why my Grandmother could speak Portuguese

[sheilajim]

Hi All

I never new my Scottish grandmother. Mary McLaren, Born 1878 died 1940. I was born too late and to far away in Canada.
I had to rely on what my mother told me about her.

What puzzles me is that she would often talk about how her mother could speak some Portuguese. She said that her mother spent some time in Portugal when she was a girl. When I was in me teens I once asked my mother what my grandmother had been doing in Portugal. She seemed at a loss over this question and I never got an answer.

When I took up Genealogy two years ago, I tried to find an answer. I found my grandmother on all the available censuses. In 1881 at 3 years old, she, her mother Agnes Boyd, and her brother and sister are staying with her grandparents. In the 1891 census my 13 year old grandmother is staying with an aunt. Her brothers and sisters are scattered around with relatives. Her mother, Agnes Boyd ,is a patient in the Paisley Fever Hospital ,where she died soon after the census was taken. Her death was notified by my grandmother's grandmother.
In the 1901 census my grandmother is already married to my grandfather.
My grandmother's father Henry Moncrief McLaren is missing form the 1881 and 1891 census. He died in 1894.

Looking over all of this I could not find when my grandmother could have gone to Portugal, and thought that my mother had been mistaken.

Through Genes Reunited I was contacted by the wife of a second cousin. The grandson of my grandmother's sister.

I got a surprise when she e-mailed my that the McLarens
were associated with the Embassy to Portugal.

This was the first that I have ever heard about anything like this. My ggrandfather Henry McLaren was a dyer. Somehow I am sure that if he had been associated with the Embassy to Portugal in any official capacity, my mother would have known about it and definitely have mentioned it.

Sorry for this rambling post, but is there any way that I can find out if my grandmother ever went to Portugal in any capacity? Is there any way that I can solve my Portugal mystery?

Regards

[Currie]

Hello Sheila,

I’m not too clear whether Scotland has its own diplomatic setup or whether everything is handled from London. Regardless of that there would have been someone in Edinburgh and probably the larger centres, especially the seaports, to represent the interests of Portuguese citizens whether living there or passing through.

For example, Newcastle, New South Wales, in the early 1900s, while not the Federal or State capital, was a busy trading port and had representatives of Belgium, Chile, Denmark, France, Germany, Hawaiian Islands, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Peru, Spain and the USA. In real life these representatives, sometimes of more than one country, were usually men and with some status in the community, such as managers, politicians, businessmen etc. and hopefully with some knowledge of the language. They were usually known as Consuls, Vice Consuls or Consular Agent.

Possibly your grandmother was acting in that sort of a capacity or even worked for a local Consul and picked up the language from her contacts there. A Directory of the area your family came from may list these Consulates.

I doubt that someone would have been sent to Portugal to work in the Embassy there unless they were a Civil Servant, in which case their name may have appeared in the Edinburgh or London Gazettes.
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

I don’t really know much about the subject but hope it helps a bit,

Alan

[AndrewP]

I’m not too clear whether Scotland has its own diplomatic setup or whether everything is handled from London. Regardless of that there would have been someone in Edinburgh and probably the larger centres, especially the seaports, to represent the interests of Portuguese citizens whether living there or passing through.

Portugal had a consulate in Edinburgh - or more accurately in Leith - until about 10 years ago. It was most probably there as it was very close to the docks (I am presuming there were trading links with Portugal that involved shipping though Leith Docks).

As UK embassies and consulates are run from the Foreign Office in London, Scotland is unlikely to have been independently represented abroad. Of course, there were/are likely to have been Scots amongst the diplomats representing the UK abroad.

All the best,

AndrewP

[sheilajim]

Hi Alan & Andrew

Thank you for your input. I doubt very much that my grandmother was part of any official representation to Portugal. Aside from the fact that she would have been too young at the time of her supposed Portuguese connection, she came from a working family. Her father was a dyer, his parents had died young. Her maternal grandfather was only a teacher.

I was wondering if her father or she had gone to Portugal in any kind of support capacity. Maybe as some kind of servant. My mother thought that my grandmother had actually been in Portugal. She could have been mistaken and possibly my grandmother got a job in Scotland with some Portuguese family.

If she or her immediate family left Scotland for Portugal for any length of time, would there be records of this? The family lived in Renfrewshire.

I don't understand why her father is missing from the 1881 & 1891 census.

Regards

[Currie]

Thanks Andrew, for the info on the consulate situation.

Sheila,

I would guess that the Embassy in Portugal would employ Portuguese for most of the servant roles unless it was something special such as maybe a cook if they didn’t like the local cooking.

Would they bring workers from the UK to do renovations etc if there was a security issue? (i.e. of the James Bond 007 variety) But that would be a short term thing. I’m just guessing.

A frustrating thing, the story must be true in some form or other.

All the best,
Alan

[winslowsmom]

Hello Sheila

One of my gggrandmothers says on an 1892 poor relief app that one of her sons is
" a bleachfield foreman married with 4 children and living in Lisbon, Portugal"

None of the names connect with that of your family, but the time frame and industry are similar, so I thought I would share.

Cathy H
Fountain Valley, CA

[Currie]

Hello Cathy,

I believe you’ve provided the key to this puzzle. A textile one.

I’m sure you’re on the right track, let’s see where it leads.

What we might need is some info on the Portugese textile Industry in the 19th century.

Alan

[sheilajim]

Hi Cathy & Alan

Thank you neighbor Cathy for sharing with me the info of your family being in Portugal.

That must be the answer. I imagine that a dyer isn't much different from a bleachfield worker. My GGrandfather's brother was also a dyer, and I can't find him on the 1881 or 1891 census either.
I will have to try to find out what I can on the Portugal Textile Industry. My grandmother's mother died when my grandmother was only 13 years old. It is possible that her father took my grandmother with him if he went to Portugal. If my GGrandfather Henry Moncrief McLaren did go to Portugal, he was back in Scotland by 1894 because he died in Paisley in that year.

Does anyone know if Scotland kept lists of the comings and goings of its citizens to foreign countries in the late 19th century?

Regards

[David Lang]

Hi Shelia

If the family was from Paisley that was a major textile town, maybe contatc the Paisley Library to see if they have any information on works in Portugal

[StewL]

Sheila

This might not be of any help but!
When I was a wee boy in Scotland two of my best pals had mothers who were German and Austrian, and through this I picked up enough German to understand it a bit when spoken, my best pals mum even warned the other pals mum But after I came her to Oz I ended up losing what I had learned
Perhaps just perhaps, your grannie learned the language the same way?