JACK/TEAM/LAIRD/GARDNER and more!

Sandy_Jack · Post by **Sandy_Jack** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:49 pm

Hello and Happy New Year,

I am new to this site. I would like to say that from what I have read on the message boards...everyone is so very friendly here!

I am researching the name JACK. I am rather stuck on a few people.

John JACK married to Janet FIFE? Cannot find record of marriage. John must have died young (1836 to 1851) as he is not on any census records. No info on him... I have downloaded the birth registries of their children, Alexander, Ann, and Mary, however there are two other boys which may be from a previous marriage Robert and John. (No info on them). Janet FIFE was born in Clackmannenshire (Dollar). In 1851 they were in Blaringone. In 1861 they moved to Govan, Lanarkshire.

Ann JACK (ANDERSON for a short while- widow) is one of the main persons of interest in my search. I cannot find her death either. I am stuck. If anyone else is researching these lines, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks! Sandy Jack

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:33 pm

Hello Sandy,
Welcome to Talking Scot! [talkingscot]

Just to make sure we are all focussing on the right people, can you confirm that this is the family in 1851? The birth place for Janet is different, so I want to be sure before looking further.

1851
New Village of Blaringone, Kinross
Janet Jack, 57, Head, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Tea Dealer
Robert Jack, 30, Son, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Tea Dealer
John Jack, 25, Son, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Coal Miner
Alexander Jack, 19, Son, born Fossoway, Perthshire, Coal Miner
Ann Jack, 16, Daughter, born Fossoway, Perthshire, At Home
Mary Jack, 14, Daughter, born Fossoway, Perthshire, At Home

All the best,
Sarah

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:53 pm

Wecome to Talking Scot!

If this is the right family which Sarah has found there is a marriage on the IGI between a JOHN JACK and JANET WHITEon 17 November 1815 in Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross.
Have Fife and White been confused?

Regards,
Meg

Post by **AndrewP** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:14 pm

Here is the same family group in 1841 (give or take Ancestry's transcription).

1841
Old Blairingone, Fossoway, Kinross-shire
John Pach 50, Coal Miner
Janet Pach 45
Hellen Pach 25
Robert Pach 21, Coal Miner
John Pach 15, Coal Miner
Elisabeth Pach 12
Alexander Pach 9
Ann Pach 7
Mary Pach 4
(all born Kinross-shire)

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:27 pm

Brilliant, Andrew!!!

I couldn't find them anywhere

And that narrows down the window for John's death.
All the best,
Sarah

Sandy_Jack · Post by **Sandy_Jack** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:20 am

My goodness you are all great! I never would have thought that the name could have been mutilated that much! I have seen transciption errors in the name Team (Fearn) but this is definitely way out there!

Yes, it does help narrow down the search for John Jack's death time.

I could not find them in the 1841 census and now I know why! Thank-you again!!!

I saw the Janet White marriage on Scotlands people. Perhaps I should download it to see if there is a transcription error on the marriage listing. It is definitely Fife on the children's birth registries.

Ann Jack
B. 27-May-1834
Fossoway and Tulliebole,
M. James Anderson
18-Dec-1851 in Glasgow,
Widow at birth of Illegitmate child John Jack (Father is John Black) Nov 1, 1871
Death: Unknown

Janet Fife abt 1796
In the census, it shows her as having different birth locations - I am quite sure it is the same person...based upon who she is living with at the time.
esp. 1871 census which shows the baby John Jack (Ann's illegitimate child)
1841 born Kinross
1851 born Fossoway, Perthshire
1861 born Dolles, Clackmannan
1871 born Daller, Llackmanenshire
(now I am not so sure)

I find myself second-guessing my research. I will have to review what I have done. Many thanks again for your assistance.

Currie · Post by **Currie** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:39 am

FreeCen got it right in 1841.

http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

The World belongs to everyone, the best things in life are free - especially FreeCen.
Alan

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:06 am

=D> =D> for FreeCen!!!

I had wondered about the births in Fossoway to Alexander Jack and Janet White, especially after having seen the marriage of John Jack to Janet White.

Helen Jack
Birth 10 Jan 1816
Christening 14 Jan 1816 Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross
Father: Alexr. Jack
Mother: Janet White

John Jack
Birth 06 Aug 1818 Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross
Father: Alexr. Jack
Mother: Janet White

Margt. Jack
Birth 05 Feb 1821 Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross
Father: Alex. Jack
Mother: Janet White

Ann Jack
Birth 05 May 1826 Fossoway and Tulliebole, Kinross
Father: Alex. Jack
Mother: Janet White

Only Helen's birth corresponds to the 1841 census of John & Janet.

Once again, FreeCen comes to the rescue (thanks for the reminder, Alan!

) Here is the Alexander Jack household, where Janet (White?) seems to have already died. Looks like Alex and John were possibly brothers who named some of their children alike, just to confuse future generations.

JACK Alexander, 50, Shoe Maker, born Kinross-shire(Originally: Perth)
JACK Robert, 27, Shoe Maker, born Kinross-shire(Originally: Perth)
JACK Hellen, 25, born Kinross-shire(Originally: Perth)

There is one more Jack household in Fossoway in 1841, another John:

JACK, John, 30, Mason, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)
JACK, Ann, 30, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)
JACK, Jane, 6m, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)
JACK, Margret, 56, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)
JACK, James, 5, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)
JACK, Isabella, 6, born Kinross-shire (Originally: Perth)

So... it looks like whoever wrote down the marriage details for John & Janet was confusing Janets. Or, since White and Fife could easily be confused graphically if the capital F was fancy enough, perhaps it is the transcription. Or the registrar was slightly deaf and heard one as the other? The vowel is the same

Well, there is a handful of possible explanations for you!

It would be interesting to see the actual marriage record, whenever you have some extra cash to download it

All the best,
Sarah

Sandy_Jack · Post by **Sandy_Jack** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:39 pm

I have uploaded the OPR marriage of John Jack and Janet White (pending approval from administrators) to the Gallery, Help with Deciphering pages. Listed as John Jack Janet White OPR Marriage.

I do have a bit to think about now! I wonder if they got the name White and Fife confused? Or even Alexander and John confused. If I search for Alexander marriage on Scotlands People, there are no records. mmmmmm......

When I read the responses to my post, I smile. It is so very kind of you all to look into this.

Sandy

Post by **SarahND** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:40 pm

No Admins about... so we'll just have to sit tight and wait. I take it that the White is as clear as a bell on the cert? If so, then maybe the registrar had a few too many...

Cheers!
Sarah

You can amuse yourself in the meantime by these "gems" from GROS

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/f ... /gems.html

And be glad that the marriage wasn't like this baptism

Something - George Something lawful son to what-ye-call-him in Mains of Barskimming was baptized April 9th 1704.  (Ochiltree, 1704 OPR 609/1. page 9)