Elizabeth Ainslie Hume and John McLeod

hmack · Post by **hmack** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:40 am

Hi Folks- I would really appreciate help with Elizabeth Ainslie Hume, born 1843 or so.
She married John McLeod, son of Alexander McLeod and Ann McLeod (ms) of Rosshire (although the first s looks for all the world like a p to me!!) I think I have the McLeods sorted, though family legend has them coming from the isle of Skye rather than Applecross, Ross and Cromarty?? )
Elizabeth and John were married in 1870 in Rockhampton, Queensland. She was supposedly aged 27, and a widow.
I've found her first marriage to George Miles, in 1867, and the daughter Mary Ann Miles, from that marriage, and the family of Elizabeth and John McLeod, whose names seem to match with those in the Alexander and Ann McLeod family.
But going backwards with Hume I hit the wall. According to the marriage certificate her parents were Walter Hume and Elizabeth Ainslie. And her birthplace is given as Roxburghshire. But I can find no record of birth of any of the three- Elizabeth Hume, Elizabeth Ainslie, or Walter Hume, and no marriage- in Scotland or England.
Any clues? any suggestions?
many thanks, Helen

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:28 am

Hello Helen,
Welcome to Talking Scot! [talkingscot]

It's possible that there was no marriage to find...

Here is an interesting census record, with something I have not seen before: children referred to as "Nat Daught" instead of just "Daught". Natural Daughter, I would assume... which sounds as if they were illegitimate. In any case, there is a good candidate for your Elizabeth in this household!

1851
3 Melgund Place, Hawick, Roxburghshire
Elizabeth Ainslie, 52, Head, born Fort George, Inverness, Pauper-- formerly Seamstress
Mary Ann Ainslie, 26, Nat Daught, born Hawick, Roxb, Woollen Shawl Twister
Jane Ainslie, 14, Nat Daught, born Hawick, Roxb, House Servant
Elisabeth Ainslie, 9, Nat Daught, born Hawick, Roxb, Scholar

You have the birthplace now of mother Elizabeth also, which makes her record easier to find.

But where is Walter Hume? There are two in Hawick in 1851, of an age to be Elizabeth's father. Both are farm labourers. One is 43 and married with a large family. The other is 31 and living with his parents.

Food for thought!

All the best,
Sarah

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:50 am

Hi again,
In case this helps to clarify if I have found the right person... Here is that Elisabeth Ainslie in 1861:

1861
Horsleyhill, Minto, Roxburghshire
Andrew Hall, 38, Head, born Edrom, Berwickshire, Farmer of 395 Acres Employ 4 Men 1 Boy & 5 Women
Helen Hall, 34, Wife, born Cavers, Roxburghshire
Anna Hall, 4, Daughter, born Minto, Roxburghshire
Margaret Hall, 1, Daughter, born Minto, Roxburghshire
Elisabeth Ainslie, 19, Servant, born Hawick, Roxburghshire, Nurserymaid
Agnes Waldie, 17, Servant, born Jedburgh, Roxburghshire, Ag lab
Janet Scott, 27, born Ewes, Dumfriesshire, Kitchen maid
Robert Goodfellow, 14, Servant, born Ancrum, Roxburghshire, Assistant Shepherd
William Broadwood, 64, Servant, born Hawick, Roxburghshire, Shepherd

What was the occupation of Elisabeth Hume on her first marriage certificate? And what were her parents' occupations? Were they still living when she married in 1867? If you have that information, we could at least try to cross-check and see if it looks like the same Elisabeth.

Regards,
Sarah

hmack · Post by **hmack** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:26 am

I was told you folks were good, but this is astonishing!!
No occupations for mother, but Walter Hume father of Elizabeth Hume is listed as farmer. And no indication if parents are living or dead.
HOWEVER: her first daughter is named Mary Ann, same as her sister. I'll see is there's any evidence of Mary Ann Ainslie in Australia as well. Thank you so much for this lead.
Helen

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:05 am

Let us know if you find anything!

All the best,
Sarah

hmack · Post by **hmack** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:55 am

Sarah- the 31 year old.... I think we can rule him out don't you? he would have been 22 when Elizabeth was born.... and her mother 43??
any thoughts on the age gap between the children? I'm used to families having a child every second year.... but I guess if you're the "one on the side" you might escape that fate?? Just wondered about the possibility of a son William?? and the possibility of Mary Ann being the mother of Elizabeth rather than the sister, given the ages... will get back to you when I've done some more work... Helen

Post by **SarahND** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:27 pm

Hi Helen,
I wouldn't rule anyone out at this stage. A 22 year old can certainly father the child of a 43 year old, no problem! And, as you say, Elizabeth may well be Mary Ann's daughter. The fact that she named her first daughter Mary Ann is suggestive... Sounds like a fascinating puzzle you have here!

As for other children, there surely could have been more, and if the fathers were not the same, the age gap is not surprising. Also, there could have been other children who didn't survive. As you'll see on FreeCen, if you go back to 1841, there is still no man in the house:

1841
High Street, Hawick, Roxburghshire
Elizabeth Ainslie, 35, born Roxburghshire, Dressmaker
Elizabeth Ainslie, 1, born Roxburghshire
Jean Ainslie, 6, born Roxburghshire
Ann Renwick, 15, born Roxburghshire

Unfortunately, the 1841 census doesn't give us the relationship between the people, but I'm thinking Ann Renwick might be Mary Ann Ainslie, with a clue to her father... Otherwise, I can't find Mary Ann anywhere in that census.

If the kirk session records exist for this parish, it would be well worth a read to see what was going on! The National Archives of Scotland site is struggling to put up a new search function and nothing is working for the moment

so I can't tell whether or not those records still exist. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

All the best,
Sarah

hmack · Post by **hmack** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:07 pm

no assumptions, Sarah.
I've found these in the Queensland BDM. I’m interested in this because of the names of the grandchildren- if Elizabeth Ainslie was the natural daughter of Walter Hume, does it seem odd to be using the name Hume, and that of her father Walter for her own children? Or is this a 21st century way of thinking?

Would it have been acceptable for a man to acknowledge his natural children in the 1800s?? or was he obliged to acknowledge his children through the kirk sessions... I've read some of those and they seemed pretty keen to establish parentage!!

Marriage of Mary Ann Miles daughter of Elizabeth Ainslie Hume and George Miles
1891/C1723 Woods Frederick Miles Mary Ann

Children of this marriage:
1893/C11977 Woods Ivy Matilda (Frederick Woods and Mary Ann Miles)
1911/C10201 Woods Walter Mervyn (Frederick and Mary Ann Miles
1891/C10721 Woods Frederick Miles (Frederick and Mary Ann Miles)
1907/C11847 Woods Clarice Hume (Frederick and Mary Ann Miles)

and she did use the name Hume on her first marriage certificate.... and gave parents names as Walter Hume and Elizabeth Ainslie (ms) on her second marriage....
Will have to wait some six weeks for that certificate to arrive in the mail, so I can check occupations as you suggested. Please watch this space....

Helen

Post by **SarahND** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:53 pm

hmack wrote:Would it have been acceptable for a man to acknowledge his natural children in the 1800s??

Absolutely. I've seen it happen many times-- and often without the help of the kirk session! For all we know she may have had regular contact with him before leaving Scotland.

Look forward to hearing what you find

Sarah

hmack · Post by **hmack** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:52 pm

so I'm back.... and bingo! (I think.... ) have a birth certificate for a sibling of my Annie mcLeod which has birthplace of their mother Elizabeth Ainslie Hume as Hawick Roxburghshire, Scotland, in about 1843.

Now just before I get comfortable with this information, to complicate matters, it appears that the father, John McLeod who married Elizabeth Ainslie Hume in Australia, was born in Loch Carron Ross shire. And I found this on IGI and I know it is not terribly reliable, and the dates are a bit out ... and of course this is the McLeod person born in Loch Carron, not Elizabeth Ainslie Hume but I wonder if Betty Ingles coud be a corruption of Elizabeth Ainslie? or is that too far fetched? and Elizabeth Ainslie Hume may have lived in the same area as John McLeod... but why they wouldn't marry in Scotland instead of 12,000 miles later??? or is this just a red herring?

Husband

WALTER HUME
Marriage: About 05 FEB 1848 Lochcarron, Ross And Cromarty,
________________________________________
Wife

BETTY INGLES

Marriage: About 05 FEB 1848 Lochcarron, Ross And Cromarty, Scotland

Comments please, discard this Betty Ingles and work on the Hawick info? which does look pretty good.....
best regards
Helen