Hello, I'm a newbie too - can anyone help?

[bharvey]

Hi, this is my first time on this forum and was hoping that someone may be able to help me out with this wee puzzle.....

On my great grandfather Andrew Hamilton’s marriage certificate to Margaret Kelly Sives (Liberton, Edinburgh 31.12.1909), his mother is listed as Helen Hamilton now married to James Dudgeon. No mention of a Father’s name. On Helen’s marriage certificate to James Dudgeon (Canongate, Edinburgh 29.03.1901) she is listed as a spinster. I am therefore deducing that Andrew was born out of wedlock, I have so far been unable to source his birth certificate (He was 31 at the time of his marriage in 1909). Any suggestions how I may find the name of his father?

Many thanks

[LesleyB]

Hi bharvey
and welcome to Talking Scot!

Finding the birth entry would certainly be the first step. It may contain further clues. Have you seen Andrew in the 1901 census? This should state his place of birth and perhaps help a little.

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Hi bharvey,

Assuming the ancestry.co.uk transcription is good, then for the 1901 census (a couple of days after the wedding) it is showing James Dudgeon and wife Helen, with his youger brother and sister in the household in the Canongate district. Andrew Hamilton is not shown in that household.

Helen (age 43) is given a being born in North Berwick, East Lothian. Was she still there at the time of Andrew's birth?

All the best,

AndrewP

[Jack]

Hi bharvey,
Just adding to Lesley's and Andrew's advice.
This looks like Andrew Hamilton in these censuses - b. Cockburnspath, Berwickshire.
Details mainly from Ancestry, so best to look at the originals.
--
1881 census 747 Ed 1 p 10 (Langton - Berwicks.)
Raeclinehead Farm.
Barnabus HAMILTON, head, 52, Farm servant, b. Prestonkirk, Hadds.
Agnes HAMILTON, wife, 52, do's wife, b. Kelso, Roxburghs........... [2nd wife]
Alexander HAMILTON, son, 7, Scholar, b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks. [mother Margt. Stevenson]
Andrew HAMILTON, gr-son, 4, --------b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks.
William HAMILTON, gr-son, 2, ------b. Oldhamstocks, Berwicks.
--
In 1881 with farmer David Mill in Greenlaw, Berwickshire,
Helen HAMILTON, visitor, 23, -----------------b. North Berwick, Hadds.
Whether it is the right Helen i couldn't say, but a fair possibility.
--
1891 census 714 Ed 3 p? (Oldhamstocks - East Lothian)
Stotencleuch Farm Place.
Barnabus HAMILTON, head, 63, Ag. Lab, b. Prestonkirk, Hadds.
Agnes B. HAMILTON, wife, 63, -----------b. Kelso, Roxburghs.
Hellen HAMILTON, daur, 34, Ag. Lab, b. North Berwick, Hadds.
Andrew HAMILTON, gr-son, 14, Ag. Lab, b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks.
William HAMILTON, gr-son, 12, Scholar, b. Oldhamstocks, Berwicks.
Peter HAMILTON, gr-son, 6, Scholar, b. Gladsmuir, Hadds.
Margaret ROBERTSON, gr-daur, 6, Scholar, b. Coldingham, Berwicks.
--
In 1901 the only Andrew i can see that might fit is as a son to a
Hugh Wiggins (40) & wife Sarah (30)....
Perhaps son is just a transcription error?
Address - 8 Prospect Terrace, Canongate.
Andrew HAMILTON, 23, Brewery worker, b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks.
Could this be him?
--
Jack
ps. It is Andrew in 1901...same address where mother Helen Dudgeon is in 1901.
The Wiggins family are on schedule 114 - Andrew & mother Helen are on 115.
So he was living with mother Helen and her hubby James Dudgeon.
Yet another mix up by Ancestry...
...who really need to reinstall the page number "neighbour search" on their censuses.
--

[lizanne]

As he is not with his mother on the 1901 census do you have them together on an earlier census ? That should give some indication to where abouts he was born.
I checked SP for births in East Lothian between 1875 & 1880 there where none , there were 3 in Mid Lothian & 3 in Edinburgh city though.

[AndrewP]

Hi bharvey,

Helen Dudgeon, with husband and his siblings were also at 8 Prospect Terrace, so it looks like they were living in the same building as her son Andrew. Unless Ancestry has it wrong and they were in the same household. The original on ScotlandsPeople should answer that.

All the best,

AndrewP

[bharvey]

Gee Whizz! Am gobsmacked! I thought I’d have a quick peek at Talking Scot in my lunch hour, and am delighted to see all these responses!

Thanks you all so much for taking the trouble to search these records out for me. As I am at work just now I have limited time to check the information I have until this evening, but I will say that Helen Hamilton / James Dudgeon’s marriage Certificate lists Helen’s parents as Barnabus Hamilton and Margaret Stevenson. From the information Jack gives from the 1891 Census, it seems that Helen’s Father and a second wife Agnes Hamilton possibly brought Andrew up….

Thanks again!

[Jack]

And Barnabus as Bernard is living to a good age.
--
1901 census 713, Ed 7, p ? (North Berwick)
Redside Farm Cottages No.7.
Bernard HAMILTON, head, 73, Retired Farm servant, b. Prestonkirk, Hadds.
Agnes B. HAMILTON, wife, 72, ----------------------b. Swanston, Edins. ?
Alexander HAMILTON, son, 27, General labourer, b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks.
Peter HAMILTON, gr-son, 16, Ploughman, b. Gladsmuir, Hadds.
--
Wish i'd a Barnabus to look for in my own family...
Jack

[bharvey]

Well after digesting all of your kind research, I have finally found Andrew Hamilton's birth certificate!

He was born on the 2nd August 1876 to Helen Hamilton in Cockburnspath, Berwickshire. Unfortunately, it also states that he was illegitimate.....

Many many thanks again for all your kind help, it is truly appreciated!

ps...... And yes, a Barnabus! what a find eh?

[heffy]

Hi bharvey,
Just adding to Lesley's and Andrew's advice.
--
In 1901 the only Andrew i can see that might fit is as a son to a
Hugh Wiggins (40) & wife Sarah (30)....
Perhaps son is just a transcription error?
Address - 8 Prospect Terrace, Canongate.
Andrew HAMILTON, 23, Brewery worker, b. Cockburnspath, Berwicks.
Could this be him?
--
Jack
ps. It is Andrew in 1901...same address where mother Helen Dudgeon is in 1901.
The Wiggins family are on schedule 114 - Andrew & mother Helen are on 115.
So he was living with mother Helen and her hubby James Dudgeon.
Yet another mix up by Ancestry...
...who really need to reinstall the page number "neighbour search" on their censuses.
--

I can let you know that Hugh wiggins was my great grandfather and he actually had a daughter elizabeth on 5th march 1901 . but hughs mothers maiden name was hamilton i dont know if this is a coincidence or if they are all related i was wondering if you were able to access that information of the schedule on 114 or what book it was from as I live in Australia its a bit hard to know exactly where to start