David Smith and Margaret Wilson from Castle Douglas

[sjbrundan]

I seem to have hit a brick wall,
I’m trying to find any information about my father’s family.
My grandparents David Smith (1902-1963, died in Castle Douglas, (Kelton Hill farm) and Margaret Wilson (1904 – 1963 died in Castle Douglas, (Kelton Hill farm) how can i find were they were buried, they died within 6 weeks of each other.
Also I’m looking for info about my Great grandparents, John Smith born 1857 Buittle, died before 1928 and his 2nd wife Jessie, born about 1860
(1st wife Hellen born 1856, died before 1900 (we think)
How can i find where they were buried, i have had no luck finding a marriage cert for John and Jessie or death certs for them.
Hope someone can give me some help as to how i get over this brick wall.
Thanks
Sarah

[SarahND]

Hello Sarah and welcome to Talking Scot!
As I'm sure you're aware, Smith is a difficult name to search for! Have you tried to find them in the censuses, to have an idea of where they were living over the years and what their occupations were? Every bit of extra information can help pin down which Smiths you are talking about.

All the best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sarah
..and welcome to Talking Scot

How can i find where they were buried

At the follwing site there are some contact details for the area:
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1702
Local Services - Stewartry
Abercromby Road
Castle Douglas
DG7 1LH
Tel: 030 33 33 3000
Email: combined.services.stewartry@du...

Perhaps they may be able to help or point you in the right direction.

If you were able to visit the local registrar, New Register House in Edinbrgh or Park Circus in Glasgow, or if you sent away for a copy of the entry from NRH, your grandfather's death entry should name his parents and wives, and then you would know David's mother's surname which would help with your search for John's marriage. Once you had Jessie's surname, her death should also be easier to find on Scotlands People.

Best wishes
Lesley

[JustJean]

You've still got some great clues available to you even though the name is SMITH. From the marriage of David and Margaret you obtain his mother's name. Then a search for her death becomes much easier (altho I did use wildcards to pick up variant spellings of Wylie). You'll also pick up the fact that she had another son James.

1950 SMITH JESSIE WYLIE MAIR F 81 KELTON /DUMFRIES 869/00 0007

Now from the marriage you also learn that his father John was already deceased at that time so that narrows up your window considerably.

Just as a side note.....the marriage also gives you a lovely witness name of Matthew SMITH which very very likely is yet another sibling to David. The indexing of Matthew's birth is easily identified from 4 pages of possibles because of his middle name being his mother's maiden name. This gives you location location location for the family after the 1901 census and also tells you that quite probably John was still living at the time thus once again narrowing the death window.

Ok so now let's search for that marriage of Jessie and John. From her death you'll know her parents names and if you search all of Scotland for them there is only one in a reasonable time window. The parents are a match for her so it must be them.

1892 SMITH JOHN MAIR JESSIE DREGHORN /AYR 589/00 0005

This is what I guess you think is John and first wife Hellen in 1891...

Name: John Smith
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Hellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Buittle, Kirkcudbtshire
Registration Number: 863
Registration district: Crossmichael
Civil Parish: Crossmichael
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Kilnhead
Occupation: Coachman Domestic Sert
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 3
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1891_400
Household Members: Name Age
Hellen Smith 35
John Smith 34
John Smith 10 Mo

and indeed there is a birth for wee John right where it should be which tells you his mum's maiden name and where the parents were married. A quick search for that and sure enough it's just as expected...

1889 SMITH JOHN MELVILLE HELEN OGILVEY CROSSMICHAEL /KIRKCUDBRIGHT 863/00 0003

You have a problem though in that this John Smith who married Helen does not have the same parents as the John Smith who married a few years later in Dreghorn. It sure looks suspicious that you're working with two John Smith's.....can you tell us for certain what records you know to be yours so we can get you back on the right track?

Best wishes
Jean

[JustJean]

This would be John and Jessie and family so far on the 1901 census...

Name: John Smith
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jessie W
Gender: Male
Where born: Riccarton, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 879
Registration district: Rerrick
Civil Parish: Rerrick
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Mill Haa
Occupation: Dairyman
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 57
Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1901_439
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Anderson 19
Catherine Lawson 15
John McKie 21
Hugh M D Smith 4
James Smith 2
Jeanie R Smith 7
Jessie W Smith 32
John Smith 36
John Smith 6
William Smith 8

The birth of wee Hugh is the proof....

1896 SMITH HUGH MAIR DUNLO M WHITHORN /WIGTOWN 900/00 0061

Best wishes
Jean

[sjbrundan]

Thanks for all your help,

i seem to have gotten into a bit of a mess with my family tree search.

my grandfather David Smith - the facts i know that are true,
1. owned Kilton Hill farm, Castle Douglas,
2. married Margaret lammie wilson in 1928 - Orchardton Main
3. both David and Margaret died within about 6 weeks of each other in 1963, in Castle Douglas - Kilton Hill Farm- can't find death certs

The only birth cert i can find for a David smith is 17 Jan 1904, but i says Illegitimate, no fathers name, mother Mary Jane Smith
But on Davids (correct) marriage cert it says father John Smith, mother Jessie Wylie.

do i have the wrong birth cert, i can't find anymore for a David smith born 1902-1904. at the time of his marriage in 1928 he was 25 years old.

what do i do now?
sarah

[nelmit]

Thanks for all your help,

i seem to have gotten into a bit of a mess with my family tree search.

my grandfather David Smith - the facts i know that are true,
1. owned Kilton Hill farm, Castle Douglas,
2. married Margaret lammie wilson in 1928 - Orchardton Main
3. both David and Margaret died within about 6 weeks of each other in 1963, in Castle Douglas - Kilton Hill Farm- can't find death certs

The only birth cert i can find for a David smith is 17 Jan 1904, but i says Illegitimate, no fathers name, mother Mary Jane Smith
But on Davids (correct) marriage cert it says father John Smith, mother Jessie Wylie.

do i have the wrong birth cert, i can't find anymore for a David smith born 1902-1904. at the time of his marriage in 1928 he was 25 years old.

what do i do now?
sarah

Where was this David born?

You can view Margaret Wilson/Smith's death entry at Scotlands People.


Regards,
Annette

[sjbrundan]

very good question and i wish i had the answer, i don't have any family i can ask.

all of Davids children were born in kilton Hill, Margarets family are from Buittle.
I thought he was born either castle douglas or Buittle but i don't really know.

is there something i'm missing, is there anyway i haven't thought about to find out where he was born??
sarah

[nelmit]

No - I meant the one you found - son of Mary Ann.

[nelmit]

A search at Scotlands People finds death entries for a David Smith and Margaret Wilson/Smith at Kirkcudbright in 1963. Do not enter a parish when searching.

Regards,
Annette