Hi,
I wonder if anyone can help.
I recently found the orbit for my GGrandfather Peter Nisbet Cunningham died 1920 in which it states he is survived by 4 sons and 2 daughters. Also discovered that he is buried in Old Monkland Churchyard.
Went there and by good luck found the grave. However the MI states that it was erected by Peter and his wife Elizabeth Main In Loving Memory of their 3 children who died in infancy.
I have details of 6 children who seem to have been born at reasonable intervals ie 1879, 1881, 1883, 1885, 1887, 1889. They were married Dec 1876 so I guess there may have been a birth 1877/8. I have spent rather a lot of SP credits looking for the births of these 3 infants with no success. Is it possible that they were still born perhaps? Is there any other reason why they may not have been registered?
Regards
Lizzie
Deaths in Infancy
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Tracey
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Can you contact the relevant authority to find out who else is buried in there ? might be cheaper than more credits on SP.
When family checked on my gt and gt gt grandmothers lair it revealed six children buried with them.
Just a thought..................
Tracey
When family checked on my gt and gt gt grandmothers lair it revealed six children buried with them.
Just a thought..................
Tracey
Scotland - Donaldson / Moggach / Shaw / Geddes / Sim / Gray / Mackie / Richards / Joel / Coull / Mckimmie / Panton / McGregor
Ireland and Scotland - Casey / McDade / Phillips / McCandle / Dinely / Comaskey + various spellings
Ireland and Scotland - Casey / McDade / Phillips / McCandle / Dinely / Comaskey + various spellings
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Currie
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Hello Lizzie,
If the gravestone was erected specially for the three deceased children you would think that if they had names those names would have been mentioned on the stone rather than a bit of a story about the parents. But to be so sentimental about their loss and to say that they died in infancy maybe indicates that they were born alive and lived long enough to form a bond as with a living child but not long enough to be named at baptism or even given a name.
Children whose lives do not span a census year can be a problem in that their existence often does not come to notice except in circumstances similar to those you describe.
On SP, because of the greater range of information that can be put into the search, you’ve a very much greater chance of finding a death than a birth. For instance you’re likely looking at a 0 – 1 age range for an unnamed but maybe a slightly greater range depending on how infant was commonly defined and perhaps there’s a likely district.
If the mother’s maiden name was available in the death index it would make things a lot simpler, I understand that these are gradually being added but I’ve no idea of the current status. You may have to wait until this project is finished for the years you’re interested in before you can reasonably and much more cheaply satisfy yourself as to whether these births and deaths were registered.
Just some thoughts,
Alan
If the gravestone was erected specially for the three deceased children you would think that if they had names those names would have been mentioned on the stone rather than a bit of a story about the parents. But to be so sentimental about their loss and to say that they died in infancy maybe indicates that they were born alive and lived long enough to form a bond as with a living child but not long enough to be named at baptism or even given a name.
Children whose lives do not span a census year can be a problem in that their existence often does not come to notice except in circumstances similar to those you describe.
On SP, because of the greater range of information that can be put into the search, you’ve a very much greater chance of finding a death than a birth. For instance you’re likely looking at a 0 – 1 age range for an unnamed but maybe a slightly greater range depending on how infant was commonly defined and perhaps there’s a likely district.
If the mother’s maiden name was available in the death index it would make things a lot simpler, I understand that these are gradually being added but I’ve no idea of the current status. You may have to wait until this project is finished for the years you’re interested in before you can reasonably and much more cheaply satisfy yourself as to whether these births and deaths were registered.
Just some thoughts,
Alan
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Montrose Budie
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Alan's idea is excellent.
Looking at CUNNINGHAM deaths, age range 0 - 1, in just the Old Monkland registration districts (that's 652/01, 652/02, & 652/03) produces 16 matches.
Adding on Airdrie/New Monkland, 651 & 651/01, increases the total to 22.
Widening the age range to 0 - 5, increase the Old Monkland total to 24, thus indicating that if a child survived it's first year then the infantile death rate drops off drastically.
Note that the history of the individual registration districts in this part of N Lanarkshire is very complicated with new RDs being regularly created and borders of others realigned.
An enquiry to the local authority re any records that they hold is a good idea.
That and/or find someone visiting Edinburgh in the near future as it wouldn't take more than maybe 15 mins to check out the parents on these records - compared to over 120 credits on SP!
mb
PS It will be many years before the mother's maiden name is added to all indexes, unless GROS fund a special project. In the meantime, therefore, it's a lottery as to which years/areas have that info added, as and when staff time is available.
So far none of the above areas in the years involved have had the info added.
mb
Looking at CUNNINGHAM deaths, age range 0 - 1, in just the Old Monkland registration districts (that's 652/01, 652/02, & 652/03) produces 16 matches.
Adding on Airdrie/New Monkland, 651 & 651/01, increases the total to 22.
Widening the age range to 0 - 5, increase the Old Monkland total to 24, thus indicating that if a child survived it's first year then the infantile death rate drops off drastically.
Note that the history of the individual registration districts in this part of N Lanarkshire is very complicated with new RDs being regularly created and borders of others realigned.
An enquiry to the local authority re any records that they hold is a good idea.
That and/or find someone visiting Edinburgh in the near future as it wouldn't take more than maybe 15 mins to check out the parents on these records - compared to over 120 credits on SP!
mb
PS It will be many years before the mother's maiden name is added to all indexes, unless GROS fund a special project. In the meantime, therefore, it's a lottery as to which years/areas have that info added, as and when staff time is available.
So far none of the above areas in the years involved have had the info added.
mb
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JustJean
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- Location: Maine USA
Hi Lizzie
You didn't name the weans that you do have or if you've found the deaths of any of them. Since they only seem to have the one child on the 1881 census it only stands to reason that they had a loss or two between 1876 and 1881. I just started looking and since Peter's mum was named Jeanie on his MC and the wedding took place in Old Monkland Middle District I took a chance on wee Jeanie who died in 1878.
1878 CUNNINGHAM JEANIE F 0 OLD MONKLAND (MIDDLE DISTRICT) /LANARK 652/02 0380
Perhaps you already have her but you didn't list a birth from 1878.
Best wishes
Jean
You didn't name the weans that you do have or if you've found the deaths of any of them. Since they only seem to have the one child on the 1881 census it only stands to reason that they had a loss or two between 1876 and 1881. I just started looking and since Peter's mum was named Jeanie on his MC and the wedding took place in Old Monkland Middle District I took a chance on wee Jeanie who died in 1878.
1878 CUNNINGHAM JEANIE F 0 OLD MONKLAND (MIDDLE DISTRICT) /LANARK 652/02 0380
Perhaps you already have her but you didn't list a birth from 1878.
Best wishes
Jean
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LizzieS
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- Location: Inverness
Hi All,
Thanks you all. Alans suggestion came up trumps, well almost. I looked for deaths and found two out of the three infants and was then able to find their births. One was a twin - one of the reasons I didn't find her as I didn't put that year in, hadn't thought of twins
Yes Jean, I too had surmised there would likely be a Jean and the Jeannie you found was one of those that I did too b 1878 and lived only 7 weeks.
The second I found was Jane twin to Janet b 1881, died 1882 age 1 yr.
As Jean said I didn't mention the other weans names so in case anyone can think how to find the third child the others are:
Peter Nisbet b 1879, John Main b 1883, James Ramage b 1885, George Alexander Main b 1887 and Margaret Main b 1889. This doesn't leave me with many clues as to what another name might be as both parents parents and grandparents have been used
Lizzie
PS. Note to Alan - this Peter Cunningham is the one mentioned in the Herald article you sent about the kings visit to Mossend. See what that bit of information took me!
Thanks you all. Alans suggestion came up trumps, well almost. I looked for deaths and found two out of the three infants and was then able to find their births. One was a twin - one of the reasons I didn't find her as I didn't put that year in, hadn't thought of twins
Yes Jean, I too had surmised there would likely be a Jean and the Jeannie you found was one of those that I did too b 1878 and lived only 7 weeks.
The second I found was Jane twin to Janet b 1881, died 1882 age 1 yr.
As Jean said I didn't mention the other weans names so in case anyone can think how to find the third child the others are:
Peter Nisbet b 1879, John Main b 1883, James Ramage b 1885, George Alexander Main b 1887 and Margaret Main b 1889. This doesn't leave me with many clues as to what another name might be as both parents parents and grandparents have been used
Lizzie
PS. Note to Alan - this Peter Cunningham is the one mentioned in the Herald article you sent about the kings visit to Mossend. See what that bit of information took me!
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Currie
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Currie
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Hello Lizzie,
I don’t often search for death notices for infants because there’s usually very little chance of there being one. However, this looks like one for young Jane.
Glasgow Herald, Monday, October 30, 1882
CUNNINGHAM.—At 5 North-East Park Street, Dennistoun, on the 27th inst., aged 13 months, Jane, twin daughter of Peter N. Cunningham.
I couldn’t see any for the others. The personal notices are right at the edge of the page and don’t always scan well so they may be there but not being detected. Do you have the death date and address for the death of Jeanie?
There was however the following notice. Is he one of yours?
Glasgow Herald, Thursday, April 3, 1890
CUNNINGHAM.—At 201 Bank Street, Langloan, Coatbridge, on 1st inst., aged 68 years, Peter N. Cunningham, sen.; dearly beloved. —Funeral, Saturday, 5th inst., at 2 p.m., to Old Monkland Churchyard.
Alan
I don’t often search for death notices for infants because there’s usually very little chance of there being one. However, this looks like one for young Jane.
Glasgow Herald, Monday, October 30, 1882
CUNNINGHAM.—At 5 North-East Park Street, Dennistoun, on the 27th inst., aged 13 months, Jane, twin daughter of Peter N. Cunningham.
I couldn’t see any for the others. The personal notices are right at the edge of the page and don’t always scan well so they may be there but not being detected. Do you have the death date and address for the death of Jeanie?
There was however the following notice. Is he one of yours?
Glasgow Herald, Thursday, April 3, 1890
CUNNINGHAM.—At 201 Bank Street, Langloan, Coatbridge, on 1st inst., aged 68 years, Peter N. Cunningham, sen.; dearly beloved. —Funeral, Saturday, 5th inst., at 2 p.m., to Old Monkland Churchyard.
Alan
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LizzieS
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- Location: Inverness
Hi Alan,
Yes that's Jane and thank you for that. I think they were a reasonably wealthy family so perhaps thats why there is a death notice for her.
Jeanie, was their first child and died at 7 weeks on 8th October 1878 at 88 Bank Street, Langloan. However the family lived at that time at 12 Hallside Village, Newton, Cambuslang. I think Peters parents may have lived at 88 Bank Street as they are certainly there 1881. If you can find anything that would be great.
and finally the Peter N Cunningham sen whose death notice you found is their grandfather and is also the person whose hand was smashed in an accident which you recently managed to find a report of in the Glasgow Herald. I was in the Mitchell last week and also found this notification as well as the notification of both Peter Nisbet and Elizabeth Gibson Main which is what took me to Old Monkland cemetery and the discovery of the existence of these 3 other children
Thanks for all your help.
Lizzie
Yes that's Jane and thank you for that. I think they were a reasonably wealthy family so perhaps thats why there is a death notice for her.
Jeanie, was their first child and died at 7 weeks on 8th October 1878 at 88 Bank Street, Langloan. However the family lived at that time at 12 Hallside Village, Newton, Cambuslang. I think Peters parents may have lived at 88 Bank Street as they are certainly there 1881. If you can find anything that would be great.
and finally the Peter N Cunningham sen whose death notice you found is their grandfather and is also the person whose hand was smashed in an accident which you recently managed to find a report of in the Glasgow Herald. I was in the Mitchell last week and also found this notification as well as the notification of both Peter Nisbet and Elizabeth Gibson Main which is what took me to Old Monkland cemetery and the discovery of the existence of these 3 other children
Thanks for all your help.
Lizzie
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Currie
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Hello Lizzie,
I had no luck with the 1878 death, because strangely there’s not a single 1877 or 1878 edition of the Glasgow Herald in the database. The years either side seem to be fairly complete and I would say they more likely haven’t been scanned than don’t exist. I’ve struck a similar problem with the North Wales Chronicle. Hopefully they’ll be added later.
All the best,
Alan
I had no luck with the 1878 death, because strangely there’s not a single 1877 or 1878 edition of the Glasgow Herald in the database. The years either side seem to be fairly complete and I would say they more likely haven’t been scanned than don’t exist. I’ve struck a similar problem with the North Wales Chronicle. Hopefully they’ll be added later.
All the best,
Alan