searching for info on Margaret Stewart

ggirl · Post by **ggirl** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:42 am

born illegitimate 27th/dec/1872 her mother was Mary Stewart.

Her birth certificate says Barns Terrace Ayr as birthplace,has anyone any info on what sort of place it was then.I have been to see it but got no clue really.Was wondering if her mother gave birth as dom servant there.

Also can't seem to find any more info on her whereabouts after that and would also love to know the father's name.Will I need to go to NAS ?

Many thanks ,this is my first time posting .

Post by **paddyscar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:50 am

Hi ggirl, and a Warm Welcome to TalkingScot!!

ScotlandsPeople http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk shows only 2 Margaret Stewart birth registries for Ayr 1872
1872 STEWART MARGARET F MAYBOLE /AYR 605/00 0166
1872 STEWART MARGARET F BEITH /AYR 581/00 0010

I viewed the first one.

Date 1972 August thirtieth 2h 15min. a.m.
Place Kirklands Street, Maybole
Mother: Margaret Kennedy, Domestic Servant
Father; Thomas Stewart, Cellarman

The parents have signed the registration form as Margaret Kennedy and Thomas Stewart, Father, 60 Kelven Street, Glasgow.

Correction note: Child legitimated by subsequent marriage of the Parents See Reg. of Cor. Entry, Vol 1, No. 54 1st October, 1872

I know the birth dates don't match, but stranger things have happened. The only other Margaret Stewart listed for Ayr 1872 was born to Mary and John Stewart of Tearance LOdge, Beith

Frances

Post by **paddyscar** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:03 am

Hi again ggirl:

I went to the IGI and there is an extracted birth or christening record.

If your source of the birth date is taken from the IGI, it could indicate the christening date, rather than the birth date. That might be the one afterall. The parents may have been required by the Church to hold off the christening, until they after were married in October.

Back to ScotlandsPeople, where it shows 8 records for the 1881 census matching the following criteria:

Surname: Stewart
Forename: Margaret
Second Person forename: Thomas
Sex: Female
Age: from 8 years to 8 years

Frances

ggirl · Post by **ggirl** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:50 am

Hi Frances,
Thanks so much for your quick reply!

I'm not sure those Margarets are her.Her birth was registered jan 1873 despite her birthdate being dec 27th 1872.

Also I have viewed her marriage and her death certs and she doesn't put a father's name in either of those.

Also could you tell me what topic this is under,I can only find this post if I follow link from the email ....feeling dumb!

Thanks Pauline

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Hi Pauline

You can get an idea of what the address of Barns Terrace had for inhabitants by viewing the before and after census records closest to the birth year. The 1881 Census disks give this list: (not knowing of course the precise house at Barns Terrace I'm listing them all..)
Dwelling: 1 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 20
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jas.C. HIGHET M 33 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Slate Merchant
Fairley C.W. HIGHET M 28 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Wife
David HIGHET 5 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Jane M.M. HIGHET 3 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Margaret C. HIGHET 1 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Elizabeth MILLER U 23 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Nurse Domestic
Alice AIRD U 19 F Kilkerran, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Cook Domestic

Dwelling: 2 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 20
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jane K. STUART ? U 67 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Agnes STUART ? U 65 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Sister
Occ: Annuitant
Elizabeth ROBERTSON U 43 F Old Cathcart, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 3 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 20
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Alexr.W. STRUTHERS M 24 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Solicitor
Jessie J. STRUTHERS M 23 F West Indies
Rel: Wife
Annie M. H. STRUTHERS 2 m F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Agnes MACKIE U 25 F Prestwick, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Nurse Domestic
Elizabeth COLIN U 22 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 4 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 20
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas FULLARTON M 29 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Wine Merchant
Margaret FULLARTON M 30 F Neilston, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Janet J. FULLARTON 3 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Maggie FULLARTON 6 m F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Eliza WILSON U 18 F Barrhill, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 5 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Eliza J. BLACK W 78 F Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Mary A. ELLIOTT U 50 F Ireland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Cook Domestic
Jessie DUNLOP U 14 F Tarbolton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Housemaid Domestic

Dwelling: 6 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Susan CRAWFORD W 53 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Income From Property Ect
David CRAWFORD U 21 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Clerk In Shipowners Firm
Jane DURREL U 21 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 7 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Hugh MCEWAN M 63 M Lochgilphead Gaelic, Argyll, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Shipowner
Margaret MCEWAN M 52 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Shipowner Wife
Adelaide MCEWAN U 21 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Shipowner Daughter
Hugh MCEWAN U 26 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Shipbroker
Willm. MCEWAN 12 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Maurice BUNTINE 7 M England
Rel: Grand Son
Occ: Scholar
Annie REID U 21 F Dalmellington, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: General Servant Domestic

Dwelling: 8 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Margaret ORR U 84 F Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Sarah MCDOWALL U 56 F St Quivox, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Cook Domestic Servant

Dwelling: 9 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John PATERSON M 33 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Tanner & Shoe Manfr Employing 70 Men Women And Boys
Harriett M. PATERSON M 34 F England
Rel: Wife
Eliza R. PATERSON 6 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Scholar
John PATERSON 5 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Isabella WILSON U 20 F Elgin, Elgin, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Cook Domestic Servt

Dwelling: 10 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 21
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Anne MURRAY W 71 F England
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Mary MURRAY U 43 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Annuitant
Eliza J. MURRAY U 41 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Annuitant
Ann MUIR U 20 F Patna, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 11 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Jane BROWN W 84 F Monkton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Ann R. BROWN U 41 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter Handicap: Deaf & Dumb
Occ: Annuitant
Minnie DUNCAN U 21 F Tarbolton, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 12 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Eliza M. THOMSON W 54 F Crooked Holme, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Annuitant
Eliza M. THOMSON U 17 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Scholar
Jessie J. THOMSON U 14 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Scholar
Matilda J. THOMSON 13 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Scholar
Ellen A. THOMSON 11 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daughter
Occ: Scholar
Jessie R. BOYD U 59 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Sister Visitor
Occ: Hosier
Agnes MOORE U 33 F Ireland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servant Domestic

Dwelling: 13 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Laurence ANDERSON M 47 M Perth, Perth, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Teacher Of Drawing
Ellen ANDERSON M 39 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Wife
Occ: Teachers Wife
Mary LAUCHLAN U 27 F Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Genl Servt Domestic

Dwelling: 14 Barns Terrace
Census Place: Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203590 GRO Ref Volume 578 EnumDist 12 Page 22
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Isabella MCCRIE M 32 F Burntisland, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Wife (Head)
Occ: Ministers Wife
Chas.M. MCCRIE 6 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Bertram C. MCCRIE 1 M Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Betsy W. LONIE U 21 F Burntisland, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Kitchenmaid Domestic
Jessie TELFORD U 25 F Moffat, Dumfries, Scotland
Rel: Servant
Occ: Nurse Domestic
Alexr. ADAMSON M 35 M Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
Rel: Visitor
Occ: Minister Cumnock F Church

OK...now compare this to the list of servants I've been able to obtain from the Ancestry indexes of the 1871 census residing at Barns Terrace, Ayr, Ayrshire....

Marion Campbell abt 1848 Kirkoswald, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Agnes Candlish abt 1851 Newton, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Ann Findlay abt 1839 Ireland Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Isabella Frith abt 1854 Newton, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Jane Fulton abt 1854 Dalrymple, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Margaret Innes abt 1835 Spynic, Morayshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Sarah Logan abt 1852 Straiton, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Margaret Maitland abt 1838 Colmonell, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Elizabeth McCartney abt 1852 Ayr, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Elizabeth McCubbin abt 1845 Kirkoswald, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Elizabeth McKie abt 1833 Maybole, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Martha McNeil abt 1839 Irvine, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Margaret Parker abt 1853 St Quivox, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Margaret Paterson abt 1825 Lanark, Lanarkshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Isabella Pearson abt 1853 Davidson, Demfriashire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Agnes Pollock abt 1831 Barr, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Elizabeth Roberton abt 1839 Old Sathbert, Renfrewshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire
Agnes Ross abt 1845 Coylton, Ayrshire Serv (Servant) Ayr Ayrshire

Sadly I'm not immediately seeing your Mary Stewart in either of these lists but I am getting a strong idea of what the area was like. I would guess that Mary Stewart was indeed a resident servant and likely had given birth at the place of her employment.

As for father....well....you may be out of luck there. There is no clue given in the original birth entry and no RCE entry that indicates a subsequent paternity establishment. The father's identity may be information that Mary kept known only to herself.

Do you have no further clues as to what happened to Mary?? I'm assuming you've tracked Margaret back to this birth from data obtained from later marriage and death records for her. When is the next record you have for Margaret???

Best wishes
Jean

PS...your post is in the topic of "scottish people". If you look at the top of this thread you'll see the forum name and the sub topic listed like so: TalkingScot.com Forum Index -> Scottish People

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:33 pm

Might be worth checking if there were any poor law applications in the area. I found a wayward father that way - named ONLY in the poor law application by the mother when she applied for relief, (not an uncommon situation for single mothers as they had little means of support) but named nowhere else.

ggirl · Post by **ggirl** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:46 pm

Jean Thank you so much for that info...you're brilliant!!!

Sadly she is not there is she.

I have viewed her marriage to David Finlay on dec31st1896 and her death jun 12th 1930.

I did search for Mary her mother but I haven't found anything concrete.
except a census record for 1871 for a domestic servant named Mary stewart working for the Kay family in Coylton district.The name Kay is familiar to my mother .

I am going up to scotland on sunday for a week and may have a chance to go the NAS but don't really know what I should look for.

Lesley-how do I look for a poor law application?

thanks
pauline

Pa

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:25 pm

Hi Pauline

As far as I remember the Ayrshire poor law applications are kept in Ayrshire..... I'm sure someone who knows a bit more about the situation in Ayrshire will help us out here!!

See
http://www.ancestralscotland.com/region ... n/ayrshire
I think it will depend where in Ayrshire she was as to where the records will be stored.

Ayrshire Joint Archiving Service
Ayrshire Archives Centre
Craigie Estate
Ayr
KA8 0SS
Tel: +44 1292 287584
Fax: +44 1292 284918
E-mail: archives@south-ayrshire.gov.uk
http://www.ayrshirearchives.org.uk

Open: Tue-Thu, 10:00 - 16:00 by appointment only

The archive comprises local government records for the whole of Ayrshire and Poor Law records for many parishes.

East Ayrshire

The Baird Institute History Centre & Museum
Lugar Street
Cumnock
Ayrshire
KA18 1AD
Tel: +44 1290 421701
Fax: +44 1290 421701
E-mail: baird.institute@east-ayrshire.gov.uk
http://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/comleilib

Open: Mon-Tue & Thu-Fri, 10:00 - 13:00 & 13:30 - 16:30.

Additional material includes poor relief applications, lease books and trade union contribution books.

Maybe have a look here too:
http://www.ayrshire-roots.co.uk/poorrelief.php

To my knowledge, I don't think there are any poor law applications at NAS. I think the local Archives are more likely to have something of relevance too. For a summary of the type of records held at NAS see:
http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/default.asp

Best wishes
Lesley

ggirl · Post by **ggirl** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:14 pm

Lesley thanks for that,will definitely try and access those.I am assuming she stayed in Ayr the town as that's where Barnes Terrace is so I assume that is the parish of Ayr ..or is that too simple

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:28 pm

I'm having a wee look at 1881. You've not mentioned if your Margaret stayed with her mother or what Mary's mother was called...but this pair look like possibles in the census:

Dwelling: Dinvin
Census Place: Girvan, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203598 GRO Ref Volume 594 EnumDist 14 Page 5
Margaret STEWART U 62 F Dailly, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Dairymaid
Margaret STEWART 8 F Ayr, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Grand Daur
Occ: Scholar

What do you think?

Where did your young Margaret marry?

I have viewed her marriage to David Finlay on dec31st 1896 and her death jun 12th 1930.

Best wishes
Lesley