Martin Family Scotland

CMARTIN1971 · Post by **CMARTIN1971** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:46 pm

Hello, i have just joined this site, I am here because i am trying to trace my Scottish ancestors, have been trying for years with no luck, the Martin side is all but died out now and I would love to find living descendants. Having recently lost my Nan, it's made me all the more determined that i am going to find them.

I live in Birmingham, England, but my Gt Gt Grandfather was from Aberdeen, he was unfortunately killed in WW1 so all i know is what i have been told or found from certificates, here's what i know about him......

William Martin born c1883 Aberdeen (Am unsure but death record, Army Memorial and 1911 census state born here aswell as family knowledge saying this is correct), father James a Mason who was deceased at the time of Williams marriage (from his marriage certificate)... William ended up in Manchester, Lancashire where he married Emma Allen in 1903, and had 5 children:- Janet, Elizabeth, Mary, William, and Ethel, he then moved to Birmingham (Nan said his family were in the theatre trades) where he worked in a Theatre as an Electrician, he then had twin daughters Violet and Marguerite, Violet unfortunately died in infancy. William was then called up to War where he was a Sergent in the Oxford and Bucks Regiment being transfered to the Wiltshires. After his death his family (mostly his sisters, names unknown) from Scotland would visit his widow and she recieved an Allowance from them to help support her and the children, she never remarried or got over his loss and died tragically in a bombing raid in WW2 in Birmingham.

I can find no trace of my Gt Gt Grandfather, so if any of this information rings any bells with any of your family history or stories if you are a Martin or Martin descendant then i'd love to hear from you, thank you for your time in reading this, Claire

speleobat2 · Post by **speleobat2** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:09 am

Hi Claire,

Welcome to TalkingScot! You've got quite a challenge because there are a gazillion Martins in Scotland! I have them on both sides of my family, but earlier on then your time period.

Do you know William's mother's name? Have you searched for his birth certificate on the ScotlandsPeople website. It's pay per view, but the certificate will help locate William' family in 1883 and this will help find his sisters in the census records.

Carol

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:31 am

Hi Claire,

On ScotlandsPeople if you search for the birth of a William Martin in Aberdeenshire 1882 to 1884 you get three results. One is in Lumphanans, and one in Aberdeen has the middle name Alexander. The CWGC and SNWM records for him don't show a middle name.

The other one has no middle name and was born in St Machar, Aberdeen. His father was a stone cutter who married Sarah Jane Taylor in 1881 in Manchester. This one has to be a favourite, but is not proven at this stage unless you have any other information that matches the mother's name and marriage place. The birth of this one was in the last few days of 1882, but was not registered until 1883, so is indexed as 1883.

All the best,

AndrewP

CMARTIN1971 · Post by **CMARTIN1971** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:15 am

Hello Carol and Andrew, thank you for the warm welcome

I have checked Scotlands people but find it a bit hard to navigate, it is a popular name in Scotland isn't it, hence joining this site, was hoping for some help from people who live in Scotland to help me find my way round. The only information i have is what is given.

What i have found confusing is on the CGWC his details are listed as Wilts Reg and a service number, someone kindly checked a B'ham disc of War dead and found him but listed as Oxford and Bucks with a different service number, and Ancestry now has his listed as another number! I have tried all 3 numbers with no avail to find any slight information i can on him. I have also not found a middle name ever mentioned for him and most births list one, so am unsure and not knowing Aberdeen or it's districts i was stuck as to find his birth

Census searches do show a William H Stepson, mother Sarah Herbert Widowed in Manchester in 1901 with Taylors in the Household, his wife was born Hulme, he married Chorlton on the Medlock in 1903, this is where i found his fathers name from James a Mason (assuming stone mason?) There is also a William listed 1901 as Stepson again to a Robert and Ann Taylor in Scotland, so i wasn't sure which one was the right one.

Andrew the one you found with Father James Stone Cutter sounds very promising, I am hopeful it is him, but then i wonder is his father Scottish or just worked there? it is very difficult to work out, so i'm very greatful for any input anyone can give me

Another thing that I thought would create a lead is his widows allowance, Nan said it came from his family estate, she always assumed they had land etc like gentry, I wonder now if it's from a Will, and she was left a yearly allowance, was it from James or was it money James inherited and then it passed to her on his death?

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:04 am

Hi Claire,

CMARTIN1971 wrote:Andrew the one you found with Father James Stone Cutter sounds very promising, I am hopeful it is him, but then i wonder is his father Scottish or just worked there?

This seems to be James the stone mason in 1881 in Old Machar
His family came from the Clatt/Kinnethmont/Kennethmont area.

1881
89 Claremont St, Old Machar, Aberdeenshire
John Martin, 58, Head, born Clatt, Aberdeenshire, Retired Miller (Meal)
Jane Wilson Martin, 55, Wife, born Kinnethmont, Aberdeenshire
Ann B Martin, 29, Daughter, born Kinnethmont, Aberdeenshire, Book Keeper To Baker
James Martin, 23, Son, born Kinnethmont, Aberdeenshire, Granite Stone Mason Jour.
Jane Martin, 21, Daughter, born Kinnethmont, Aberdeenshire, Photographer's Assist.
Alexander Martin, 12, Son, born Clatt, Aberdeenshire, Scholar

All the best,
Sarah

CMARTIN1971 · Post by **CMARTIN1971** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:28 am

Thankyou for that Sarah, is Jour short for Journeyman I wonder? It would explain him being in Lancs then to marry, I really hope this is him, can you tell me, what is the distance in locations of Williams suspected POB to James POB, i have also seen in searches St Fergus, I take it these are all districts of Aberdeen.

Having checked the Scottish War Memorial, i wonder if a copy of his services records are in Scotland anywhere? I will have to try to check that out.

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:40 am

CMARTIN1971 wrote:Thankyou for that Sarah, is Jour short for Journeyman I wonder?

Yes, that would be it.

CMARTIN1971 wrote:can you tell me, what is the distance in locations of Williams suspected POB to James POB, i have also seen in searches St Fergus, I take it these are all districts of Aberdeen.

Multimap.co.uk tells me it is 33.85 miles between Kinnethmont and Aberdeen. Old Machar is the old part of Aberdeen City. Kinnethmont and Clatt are in the middle of the countryside. I have relatives who came from that area and settled in Old Machar also. It would have been the obvious choice if one had decided to go to the big city for work.

St Fergus is in a different area, farther north. As far as I know it is not also a district of Aberdeen City, but I could well be wrong on that.

Regards,
Sarah

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:48 am

Hi CMARTIN1971

Jour short for Journeyman I wonder? It would explain him being in Lancs then to marry

Oddly enough the word Journeyman has nothing to do with travelling but is derived from the French "jour" "journée" = day. A journeyman charged a sum for each day's work. A journeyman would often be working for a Master craftman. It was one step up from being an apprentice, with the next rung up the ladder being "Master ".

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:48 am

SarahND wrote:St Fergus is in a different area, farther north. As far as I know it is not also a district of Aberdeen City, but I could well be wrong on that.

St Fergus is well outside Aberdeen city to the north. It was an exclave of Banffshire until 1891, when it became a part of Aberdeenshire - a boundary tidying exercise following the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:02 pm

AndrewP wrote: St Fergus is well outside Aberdeen city to the north.

That's what I thought. Claire, which sources claim this birthplace for James? Or was it William? Or maybe you were just saying you had seen the name while searching... In which case, never mind!

Do you have any information on William's mother? I wonder if this is she in 1881:

1881
24 Grace St, New Cross, Manchester, Lancashire
Jane Taylor, Head, Wid, 53, Umbrella Maker, born Manchester
Sarah J Taylor, Daur, Unmar, 23, Stationer, born Manchester

It might help to get the marriage cert for James and Sarah Jane. Might there be an address on the cert that could help clarify?

CMARTIN1971 wrote:After his death his family (mostly his sisters, names unknown) from Scotland would visit his widow

So William had sisters who lived in Scotland? This might help locate the family in 1891.
Regards,
Sarah